mmm nobody said that the engine would have a character generator (still many of us are waiting), it's like most of the engines out there, you make your assets including the characters etc.

Originally posted by Amestris:

mmm nobody said that the engine would have a character generator (still many of us are waiting), it's like most of the engines out there, you make your assets including the characters etc.

But as a software that advertizes needing almost no skill to use, you can't create your own assets wthout having artistic skill. This is why RPG Maker has a character generator, and why even though it is in 2D, it still comes out on top.

Originally posted by glenny3214:

as a software that advertizes needing almost no skill to use

I understand where your coming from and it seems to be a popular request as its been requested a lot even prior to coming out.

To be fair though, their advertising is for no programming only. It's very clear according to their store description:

Originally posted by baz:

Originally posted by glenny3214:

as a software that advertizes needing almost no skill to use

I understand where your coming from and it seems to be a popular request as its been requested a lot even prior to coming out.

To be fair though, their advertising is for no programming only. It's very clear according to their store description:

RPG Developer Bakin is a game development tool that allows anyone to create RPGs using intuitive operations and advanced features without the need for programming knowledge. Several game asset DLCs are also available, so you can enjoy creating games from the day you purchase it.

Just chiming in with my two cents, but you highlight where it says "without the need for programming knowledge", but the very next sentence says "Several game asset DLCs are also available, so you can enjoy creating games from the day you purchase it"....

Regardless, I think ya'll are nitpicking the wrong topic.
The OP said the engine is NOT WORTH IT without a character editor, not that "They promised us that!" ...Nobody said it was promised, the OP is just very right in saying "its not there and probably should be" ...and I pretty much agree. I used Smile Game Builder, and found it lacking assets a huge flaw even after buying every asset pack they sold.

It easy to say "this engine requires no coding", but you also have to remember WHO would want that? Who wants "no coding"? People without skills...pretty much. And therefore, it makes logical sense to offer people without skills a full solution instead of saying "oh you don't need skills to CODE, but you totally are gonna need a masters in 3D modeling to do anything...also... Buy our 'easy' engine!"

Doesn't make sense? Does it?

I think true competitors in this market for "low-skill" game creation all know that people will need the basics out the gate. RPG Maker comes with a character generator (this is not an advertisement, I'm merely mentioning this engine, I recently had my comments removed from the 001 Game Engine forum for merely mentioning the existence of other engines because the moderator called it "advertising" therefore, here is a disclaimer--this is not advertising, and avoid 001 Game Engine/Easy Game Creator like the plague") and limited need for coding. That's the market Bakin is catering too. Bakin is unique for offering that AND a 3D space to work with, but...in my opinion, a character creator is 100% needed. I feel they don't have one because they'd prefer to sell asset packs than give you what you need out of the gate.... Even the smallest of indie games have character creators that could decently be utilized as a character creator. I think these developers are more then capable of that.

I'm still holding out hope with the C# and potential character generator. With those two things, I still feel it would be an easy purchase, but without them, I feel I'll just be getting more Smile Game Builder, which, despite being unique, was a let down for me.

I understand the OP's argument, but there is something I feel should be cleared up.
First off, I've used many RPG game engines over the years, not all of them come with a character creator, in fact most that do tend to cost a lot more. For one thing, the developer has to have their artists release assets in parts and create an additional editor for piecing them together, while also having them produce the standard character graphics, a lot of work goes into this.
Second, there are two types of people who will buy this software, game creators and hobbyists. Never assume that the later makes up the majority, as hobbyists are typical willing to use whatever they're given to use, while game creators should always be willing to create or commission whenever it becomes necessary.
It's not that hard to learn how to create your own sprite assets, there are numerous tutorials and free pixel softwares that will help you accomplish this, and there are also many artists online that can be commissioned to draw character assets for a reasonable price.
I suggest checking itch.io for this sort of thing, as it has a lot of greats artists that you can commission there, some even share their assets as free editable PSD files.
If you are not willing to use the default characters, even as a place holder for while you to learn to produce your own materials, or are not financially able to commission an artist to draw your characters, stop before you go any farther. If you lack dedication in either of those areas, you will probably never finish your game, even if you have all the necessary materials.
Having said that, is the software worth buying in it's current state? Absolutely.
Should the developers also consider implementing a character creator at some point in the future? Absolutely.
But just because the game engine doesn't suit your particular needs, doesn't make it any less of a tool for the majority of people wanting to develop their own game.
And if they do add a character creator, don't be surprised if it's paid DLC, because that's a lot of assets for them to have produced, which costs a lot more than commissioning an artist to draw several characters for one project.

LMAO!

I agree with Baz on THIS one.. this engine is worth EVERY PENNY, it's cheap as hell atm, and for what it does.. being in EA you CAN do what it says on the box.. make a game without any programming skill.. AND there was nothing mentioned about character generators by the developers for EA. If that was the case then should the devs also put on the box you need to learn Blender, 3D mondelling, effekseer, C# coding, music composing.. etc.? if you want your game to look and be pro, stand out from other games...? I think NOT! and to state every game will look the same.. FK ME! go play the thousands of RPG maker games that use the RTP graphics.. JEEZ!

By the way.. RPG Maker has had years to hone it's brand... Bakin has been released for all of around 20 days now.. if you going to compare the both engines then realise this.. RPG maker is made for 2D rpgs in mind.. Bakin is primarily made as a 3D engine where it just so happens you can use 2D assets too.. TWO totally different engines one better at some stuff than the other in various things. Now.. i'm NOT saying rpg maker cant do 3D 'cos it can.. with plugins.. which again is something that Rpg maker has had years to hone the craft. So to expect this and that on an early access is just ridiculous.

OH! and by the way.. Bakin has a character generator.. it just so happens to be in SGB (which sucks really but it works) but you can use that generator, export to desktop and then import into Bakin.. so all this stuff about there's NO generator is a lie.. there IS one, its just in SGB at the moment. We don't know developer plans for future so maybe they will upgrade that generator eventually and put it into Bakin too.. no loss though if they dont 'cos i have both SGB and Bakin. For those of you that DONT have SGB.. just wait for a sale when it usually has around 85-90% off the RTP.

To Palsa, I gotta disagree.

I think most "game creators" (though that's a subjective term) would definitely prefer tools that were designed with customization in mind. I think when you get out of the realm of "hobbyist" engines like RPG Maker and Smile Game Builder, completely lose their charm. Not to say you can't make a decent or fun game with them, merely to say that it would be unreasonably difficult to make a game outside of the model they optimized for. The act of "working around" the limitations given can sometimes be harder than just, making something else in a different engine. At least, this is what I've seen and heard from many RPG Maker creators, and even a few SGB creators. If you want to create for that model, they can easily be a first option, I just don't feel a lot of people who call themselves "game creators" are not exactly attracted to "models" and more so require general purpose tools that can allow them innovation. I feel most people who become game designers do so because they have in their head "that one game I wish I could play, but no one has made yet". In which case a model wouldn't work well.

That mixed with the fact that so few games made from these engines are "commercially" released, leads me to strongly believe these games are more so for hobbyist, by hobbyist, and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

In addition, I took several college classes in 3D modeling, to say its something you can just learn through tutorials online is exceptionally dismissive to the truth that, typically it takes years to learn to do well, and exceptional time goes into each model, or animation. I mean, it is true, you can learn to draw online, via tutorials, but its also something that could take you decades to master at any high level, or even a low level for that matter. 3D modeling and even pixel art design are no different. The truly masterful models take time to make, and time to learn how to, and the thought that goes into pixel art is extreme, every little dot can make or break a composition, making it fairly more intensive than, oh say painting, were you can mess up and repaint something easily or without intense need for precision.

These are huge barriers to entry for a lot of people.
Barriers that keep the majority of people who want a gate way into game creation, out of it. That's why software like these are exceptional, and helpful, they are that gateway, and lead many people later on to more in-depth design. They can help them ask the questions of what they want out of their journey and how far they are willing to go.

But, all that in mind, they are still very much "template" like game creators. Much can be done with that template, I've seen amazing and creative and different things done, but I don't see a lot of "professionals" buying these software for their professional needs. I DO see a lot of professional asset creators making assets for those who are not professionals, as there is a market for that, a huge one.

That being the case, I'm fully aware some professionals have used engines like this, I'm also equally aware, they are fewer in number than the hobbyist. That's not so much an assumption as it is a researched assessment.

And to clarify, my comments reflect on the marketability of such a game engine as this. There are dozens of RPG game engines, dozens...I could list them in paragraphs. But most of them are absolutely free.

Yes, that's the bigger issue. The issue of "worth".

This is more directed at sylardean, but...
There are a huge number of 100% free game engines, some that offer the exact same "no-coding" solutions as Bakin, some that offer "no-coding/coding is optional" solution. This alone makes them comparable to something like SGB or Bakin, so then why would anyone pay for SGB or Bakin? What most of these free engines do not offer, is assets and character creators. This is also, basically one of the larger reasons to buy Bakin or Smile Game Boom, its a "mostly" all in one, low-skill, easy entry point to making a game. This is the appeal, but that appeal is realistically cut in half when people realize, their game, out of the box, will look identical to all others. (Thus OPs completely realistic and reasonable concern.) This is something that RPG Maker, while yes, it suffers from in a great deal, it suffers from in far less a massive and catastrophic way than SGB, and now, Bakin.

With SGB the 'locked" grid pathways, and the distinct "square" characters, and the exceptional lack of additional characters, makes for a negatively noticeable brand mark. And yes, there is a "character generator" in SGB, but Bakin is not SGB. If you need to buy SGB in order to say "Bakin has a character generator", than, the only lie told here is that "Bakin has a character generator". Buying an entirely different software (an obsolete one at that) and porting its assets to Bakin, does not make Bakin have a character generator.

Adobe owns Photoshop and Audition (an audio editor). Saying that "Audition let's you edit photos" would be false, just because Photoshop and Audition are made by the same company. Some people don't even have both subscriptions...so no no. Bakin objectively, as of this post, does not have a character creator, no matter what other software this developer has made previously.

Ultimately, "WORTH" is highly subjective, or relative.
What is "worth it" to me, might not be "worth it" to you.

To me, a free engine might not even be "worth it" if it didn't offer the features I needed. Same can be said in reverse, a "paid" engine could be worth it, if certain features were present.

That being the case...my calculation of worth includes my knowledge of alternatives.
Given the huge number of free engines that can, arguably do more than Bakin or SGB, and the large number of paid engines that are similar to Bakin or SGB, the one thing that these engines offer that the others do not is : "Easy+ 3D+ assets"

Easy + 3D exists.
Easy + 2D + assets exists.
But, SGB/Bakin, is the only one I've seen with "Easy+3D+assets"

A lot of these other engines either require coding or require assets, even if they don't require coding.

For some, paying nearly $70 USD, may be worth it, to, out of the box, create a game nearly identical in play style and appearance to possibly thousands of other games with the option to put in upwards of hundreds more for assets or to make assets for possibly hundreds of hours, with the end result being an only slightly less similar game to everyone else. For some, that might not be worth it.

For me, it would be worth it, even knowing how similar it would look, to have different characters I've designed, as apposed to have identical ones. For my purposes, it would be acceptable, because the end goal for me is not to have a polished game with this Engine, but to gain experience with coding games in an eased way. Without that, it seems, far less palatable....doable, just...not in a "I feel good about this purchase" kind of way. And, being a hobbyist doesn't mean people have low standards. Hobbyist make due, but they also have vision and demands for those visions. Something that a character creator would be needed for.

Ultimately the market gets narrower and narrower the less you provide out the gate.
I mean, just looking at the backlash from people playing Harvesettla, and how much they detested the character creator in that...makes it a very articulate point that...people want customization. And many would abandon otherwise great things without it being there. Sad, but very true.

I'm neither a devote fanboy of SGB or Bakinn, nor am I an overly critical skeptic. I just want to be realistic about its worth and value and limitation from my perspective and that of others who may share similar concerns. Alternatives exist, but few fit every need case. What a person needs and wants will impact the worth of such a thing. And as a person who has explored this market way more than I'd like to admit, I see this engine could hit a very valuable niche, but very much so misses the mark without more customization options.

I do not intend any harm, especially since I see much promise in this Engine.

Originally posted by Palsa:

I understand the OP's argument, but there is something I feel should be cleared up.
First off, I've used many RPG game engines over the years, not all of them come with a character creator, in fact most that do tend to cost a lot more. For one thing, the developer has to have their artists release assets in parts and create an additional editor for piecing them together, while also having them produce the standard character graphics, a lot of work goes into this.
Second, there are two types of people who will buy this software, game creators and hobbyists. Never assume that the later makes up the majority, as hobbyists are typical willing to use whatever they're given to use, while game creators should always be willing to create or commission whenever it becomes necessary.
It's not that hard to learn how to create your own sprite assets, there are numerous tutorials and free pixel softwares that will help you accomplish this, and there are also many artists online that can be commissioned to draw character assets for a reasonable price.
I suggest checking itch.io for this sort of thing, as it has a lot of greats artists that you can commission there, some even share their assets as free editable PSD files.
If you are not willing to use the default characters, even as a place holder for while you to learn to produce your own materials, or are not financially able to commission an artist to draw your characters, stop before you go any farther. If you lack dedication in either of those areas, you will probably never finish your game, even if you have all the necessary materials.
Having said that, is the software worth buying in it's current state? Absolutely.
Should the developers also consider implementing a character creator at some point in the future? Absolutely.
But just because the game engine doesn't suit your particular needs, doesn't make it any less of a tool for the majority of people wanting to develop their own game.
And if they do add a character creator, don't be surprised if it's paid DLC, because that's a lot of assets for them to have produced, which costs a lot more than commissioning an artist to draw several characters for one project.

If it's a paid DLC, I'm gonna pirate it.

Originally posted by glenny3214:

This software isn't worth it until a character generator is added. Simply for the fact that there are so few characters if you make a game and publish it, it will be exactly like someone else's published game.

here is what i have found to assist. u probably wont like it. i know i did not. but determination has gotten me almost there in a month and a half of daily tutorial spam and trial and error.

Looking everywhere for free/easy options. I came to conclusion, that there are none. At least none you could sell commercially unless you BUY the assets.

you can make characters using blender(free) if you know how well enough. I been learning it and im a 3d modelling halfwit, at least i was a month and half ago, now im maybe twofifthswit at it.
but i did make a character there. export as fbx to mixamo. get animations there+rigging.(also free). if you find the rigging jank there use "ActorCore AccRIG"(free) it has i guess slightly more options while rigging and i feel read the model more accurately.
Alternatively you can rig it urself within blender but you would need to learn alot to reach that point imo. and for the sake of RPG Maker Bakin style gfx it doesnt need to be a highly technical personalized rigging.

those other things that aren't blender are super easy to use. very little knowledge required there its like looking at a web page and a screen with 5 buttons.

Also note the game ran smooth in game with a 6k poly character. the issues i had were with adding textures in the editor. would lag and hang. have to exit and return(it autosaved on the crash at least) every texture.
Maybe lower poly like 3k is better. I will test it out sometime with my smaller models once theyre completed.

Originally posted by Shadow:

Originally posted by glenny3214:

This software isn't worth it until a character generator is added. Simply for the fact that there are so few characters if you make a game and publish it, it will be exactly like someone else's published game.

here is what i have found to assist. u probably wont like it. i know i did not. but determination has gotten me almost there in a month and a half of daily tutorial spam and trial and error.

Looking everywhere for free/easy options. I came to conclusion, that there are none. At least none you could sell commercially unless you BUY the assets.

you can make characters using blender(free) if you know how well enough. I been learning it and im a 3d modelling halfwit, at least i was a month and half ago, now im maybe twofifthswit at it.
but i did make a character there. export as fbx to mixamo. get animations there+rigging.(also free). if you find the rigging jank there use "ActorCore AccRIG"(free) it has i guess slightly more options while rigging and i feel read the model more accurately.
Alternatively you can rig it urself within blender but you would need to learn alot to reach that point imo. and for the sake of RPG Maker Bakin style gfx it doesnt need to be a highly technical personalized rigging.

those other things that aren't blender are super easy to use. very little knowledge required there its like looking at a web page and a screen with 5 buttons.

Um, isn't two fifths less than half? Just saying. XD But I will look into that program you mentioned, although I am not the most creative person. Guess I could generate a character with RPG Maker MV and then use that as a reference in Blender.

I think you're suppose to make your own Assets, or if you rich and lazy, (lol,) you could possibly buy Assets or find some kind of Asset Creator and pay them to create your Assets for you. ;)

Originally posted by glenny3214:

Originally posted by Shadow:

here is what i have found to assist. u probably wont like it. i know i did not. but determination has gotten me almost there in a month and a half of daily tutorial spam and trial and error.

Looking everywhere for free/easy options. I came to conclusion, that there are none. At least none you could sell commercially unless you BUY the assets.

you can make characters using blender(free) if you know how well enough. I been learning it and im a 3d modelling halfwit, at least i was a month and half ago, now im maybe twofifthswit at it.
but i did make a character there. export as fbx to mixamo. get animations there+rigging.(also free). if you find the rigging jank there use "ActorCore AccRIG"(free) it has i guess slightly more options while rigging and i feel read the model more accurately.
Alternatively you can rig it urself within blender but you would need to learn alot to reach that point imo. and for the sake of RPG Maker Bakin style gfx it doesnt need to be a highly technical personalized rigging.

those other things that aren't blender are super easy to use. very little knowledge required there its like looking at a web page and a screen with 5 buttons.

Um, isn't two fifths less than half? Just saying. XD But I will look into that program you mentioned, although I am not the most creative person. Guess I could generate a character with RPG Maker MV and then use that as a reference in Blender.

Hahah yea sorry i sped wrote that and missed the part where i learned blender for several months and discovered i was doing everything wrong so i had to relearn it using the extra steps and methods, and then they updated it so i sorta had to learn new things to get the job done.
The main part id say is that the low poly stuff is MUCH easier to make and learn how. I have since moved on to Unreal5 and am making my game there instead.

When rpg maker fully releases i probably come back and make a game here too.

For an RPG that has many basic characters for example Final Fantasy 7,8,9,10 or Suikoden, having a 3d character generator is essential as well as if it is of medium or high quality such as Vroid Studio or 3D Custom Lady Maker
( https://steamhost.cn/app/985760/3D_Custom_Lady_Maker/?l=turkish&curator_clanid=34002855 ) ( male and female in this case) would buy it in large numbers given the demand and it would lead many people to be interested in this product, we hope, because it really has excellent Rpg Developer Bakin potential.

Originally posted by Dorial:

For an RPG that has many basic characters for example Final Fantasy 7,8,9,10 or Suikoden, having a 3d character generator is essential as well as if it is of medium or high quality such as Vroid Studio or 3D Custom Lady Maker
( https://steamhost.cn/app/985760/3D_Custom_Lady_Maker/?l=turkish&curator_clanid=34002855 ) ( male and female in this case) would buy it in large numbers given the demand and it would lead many people to be interested in this product, we hope, because it really has excellent Rpg Developer Bakin potential.

Why just lady maker? Why not males too? Pretty pointless for Bakin if all you can make is female characters using that style then have to look else where for male 3D models that probably wont look nothing alike.. consistency is key in game making.