Exactly. They need to remove the class system and the rank system. This is not a simulation game. The AI should scale with your car. Like the old need for speed games did....

Even on easy that club is f****** impossible

This is a common issue with most racing games: the AI cars aren't guaranteed to abide by the same rules as you are and that's unlikely to ever change. Also, when you have a difficulty setting that's supposed to affect AI skill, their car class doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Kweeb:

Even on easy that club is f****** impossible

It's not impossible. I eventually did it on whatever the difficulty level was before they added difficulty levels and I'm a player of mediocre skill and I'm using a keyboard(*). It's unreasonably difficult for a C2 club, but it is possible. For comparison, the same car (on medium difficulty) strolls through other C2 club elite races to such an extent that I can crash and roll the car and respawn and still win.

A bigger issue for me is the extent to which the outcome of any race depends on RNG rather than skill. It's mostly down to when and where the game places the randomly spawned moving vehicle-shaped obstacles that routinely litter the track. Some of which move randomly and some of which move in a targetted way. If they block or attack you, you lose the race. If they block or attack the other competitors, you win the race. Not a skill-based outcome.

I'm still playing a bit, but it's not my cup of tea. I prefer skill-based racing games. If I wanted a fun little game with stuff on the track I'd probably play Mario Kart.


* In case anyone is wondering, there are two reasons why I don't use a controller. Firstly, I don't want to. Secondly, one of my thumbs is damaged and I am not going to make it worse by using an input device that's so badly suited to human physiology that it's spawned a medical condition. Gamer's thumb, which should be called controller user's thumb.

Originally posted by Lardo:

This is a common issue with most racing games: the AI cars aren't guaranteed to abide by the same rules as you are and that's unlikely to ever change. Also, when you have a difficulty setting that's supposed to affect AI skill, their car class doesn't matter.

If the AI Opponent vehicle is of a higher class and the race is class restricted? Where is your logic?

Even if the Difficulty Level allows you to put it at easy, if their vehicles are over-classified they are still going to be much faster than you.

Originally posted by Tahnval:

Originally posted by Kweeb:

Even on easy that club is f****** impossible

It's not impossible. I eventually did it on whatever the difficulty level was before they added difficulty levels and I'm a player of mediocre skill and I'm using a keyboard(*). It's unreasonably difficult for a C2 club, but it is possible. For comparison, the same car (on medium difficulty) strolls through other C2 club elite races to such an extent that I can crash and roll the car and respawn and still win.

A bigger issue for me is the extent to which the outcome of any race depends on RNG rather than skill. It's mostly down to when and where the game places the randomly spawned moving vehicle-shaped obstacles that routinely litter the track. Some of which move randomly and some of which move in a targetted way. If they block or attack you, you lose the race. If they block or attack the other competitors, you win the race. Not a skill-based outcome.

I'm still playing a bit, but it's not my cup of tea. I prefer skill-based racing games. If I wanted a fun little game with stuff on the track I'd probably play Mario Kart.


* In case anyone is wondering, there are two reasons why I don't use a controller. Firstly, I don't want to. Secondly, one of my thumbs is damaged and I am not going to make it worse by using an input device that's so badly suited to human physiology that it's spawned a medical condition. Gamer's thumb, which should be called controller user's thumb.

I agree with that it is possible, but only since they added Difficulty levels. I re-started the Elite series races today because after only 4 days of doing them March 26-30) the game reset my races back to zero! I made it to level 8 and hopefully I will be able to finish them this time...this is the 3rd time I try this Club's Elite races. All other Clubs Elite races I did completely (all 75 races, all 15 levels) once. This is supposed to be a 30 day reset system and the date/days don't work with when I started the game (Jan 3rd).

As for using the same car you used to do Western Sierra in other C2 Class Clubs and their Elite races, the AI Opponents may be easier because they match the class better.

Also agree with the RNG analogy. Specially when the AI Traffic cars purposely swerve into your lane when there is no reason for it (no road to turn onto, no exit from highway/road).

So funny that you reference Mario Kart...I don't know how many times I say, this is not Super Mario or Grand Theft Auto where you have to deal with assassins...that is how it feels sometimes when the AI Opponents literally start ramming you, they're already overpowered and they weigh like military tanks so any reciprocation just basically kills us.

As you, I use keyboard. I've done so since the late 1980s and have played almost every NFS release since the early 1990s that way. I have over 2600 hours on NFS Heat, likely more when NFS World was still up (2012-2015, was #42 in the real world on leaderboards of NFSTimes, was also recruited by them as Admin/Moderator for over a year). NFS World was shut down in 2015 because cheaters had infested the game (accounts were free, real $ was needed to own DLCs), I worked with EA for about 6 months listing cheaters by their impossible times (00:00:00:01 for autofinish and some with more time but obvious speed hacks and infinite Nos etc.) on tracks listed on their NFSTimes leaderboard profiles...EA was banning them until it became obvious the same cheaters were using new emails and creating new free accounts just to keep doing the same thing. NFS World was a lot like this game except you could ride walls for speed with Nos (you could not get out of the tracks like in this game, it was more arcade-like in that sense).

All that being said, the Western Sierra Club is imho the hardest of all (except I haven't yet tried the Sunset Speedway Clubs, just bought the DLC a week ago...TBD). I am sure the fact AI Opponent vehicles are over-classified in this Club (I haven't verified other vehciles/Clubs) has a lot to do with that.

Originally posted by RUSSTYRUSS:

Originally posted by Lardo:

This is a common issue with most racing games: the AI cars aren't guaranteed to abide by the same rules as you are and that's unlikely to ever change. Also, when you have a difficulty setting that's supposed to affect AI skill, their car class doesn't matter.

If the AI Opponent vehicle is of a higher class and the race is class restricted? Where is your logic?

Even if the Difficulty Level allows you to put it at easy, if their vehicles are over-classified they are still going to be much faster than you.

Logic is always with me, which is not the case for your reading comprehension skills. Pointing out a common flaw in racing games is not an issue on my end. That being said, I tried this club and it is pretty difficult. However, I didn't notice any difference between easy and hard difficulty levels, so I'm guessing the difficulty is broken for this one.

Originally posted by Lardo:

Originally posted by RUSSTYRUSS:

If the AI Opponent vehicle is of a higher class and the race is class restricted? Where is your logic?

Even if the Difficulty Level allows you to put it at easy, if their vehicles are over-classified they are still going to be much faster than you.

Logic is always with me, which is not the case for your reading comprehension skills. Pointing out a common flaw in racing games is not an issue on my end. That being said, I tried this club and it is pretty difficult. However, I didn't notice any difference between easy and hard difficulty levels, so I'm guessing the difficulty is broken for this one.

I wasn't asking if logic was with you, in a common way of asking, I was asking you to point out your logic regarding your claim/statement. Big difference.

In terms of logic and my reading comprehension skills (in your opinion), one has little to nothing to do with the other, and from my first sentence above, maybe your logic isn't with you as much as you think it is. Maybe you should also think that it's a possibility that your writing skills are the issue and your capabilities of conveying the proper message are what is causing others to misunderstand you.

The Difficulty is not broken, the AI Opponent vehicles are over-classified. Simple, logical and easy to understand...as I explained with detail why in my original post. This isn't a common flaw, it's an outright blatant error. The Difficulty levels will not fix or correct that, if the AI vehicles are over-classified they will always be faster no matter what you do.

Very sorry, but you don't get it. Regardless, the whole point of these forums is to discuss, exchange, help each other and also to attempt to point out errors and problems to the Devs in the hopes that they will fix them. So far, they have shown quite good response to us. Hopefully, they will do something about this issue.

Originally posted by RUSSTYRUSS:

[..]
So funny that you reference Mario Kart...I don't know how many times I say, this is not Super Mario or Grand Theft Auto where you have to deal with assassins...that is how it feels sometimes when the AI Opponents literally start ramming you, they're already overpowered and they weigh like military tanks so any reciprocation just basically kills us.

I've chosen the opposite extreme - none of my main cars weigh much over 900Kg. I start by minimising the weight and limit the power to fit the class I want. A stray leaf blowing by unsettles them But the physics works as it should in that respect, so they have excellent cornering speed once I get the wheels, tyres and suspension settings sorted.

As you, I use keyboard.

Unusual choice for a serious racing gamer. Racing games are the only type of game for which KB+M is badly suited. Most serious racing gamers use analogue input devices, usually a wheel and pedals. I don't bother because I play racing games casually and CBA to build a suitable setup for moving the wheel and pedals in and out of position for different types of games. But I'm not playing at the same level as you are. The only racing game I placed highly in was Rainy Day Racer, where my best lap time on one track was 33rd in the world. After several hundred laps trying to find a couple of hundredths of a second here and there. A small game, probably only a few thousand players overall. Dirt cheap (£2.89 in the UK) and surprisingly good on the racing side despite being very limited in scope (time trials only, 3 vehicles only, no vehicle modification). It was a single dev's first go at a game and it looks like it. Partly made as a joke about how often it rains in Scotland. But it does a good job of the racing and does so in an unusual context. Run down base model ordinary cars on cheap tyres on mediocre roads in pouring rain.

I'm mostly doing time trials in CarX Street now. Currently on 62 1st places and I've finally put together a low C6 car (heavily modified FLD, which I think is a Datsun 240Z) that's good enough for me to get 1st for many of them. Plus a silly unlimited class maximum everything lambo that does >400 and is only really usable in a straight line. But it makes me smile and it strolls through a few of the time trials.

I'm having more fun in C1-C4 (except for Western Sierra, which we all agree is an anomaly in terms of difficulty). I'm not really good enough for higher classes than that. I'm getting on a bit. I don't have the reaction speed I had 50 years ago.

Originally posted by Tahnval:

Originally posted by RUSSTYRUSS:

[..]
So funny that you reference Mario Kart...I don't know how many times I say, this is not Super Mario or Grand Theft Auto where you have to deal with assassins...that is how it feels sometimes when the AI Opponents literally start ramming you, they're already overpowered and they weigh like military tanks so any reciprocation just basically kills us.

I've chosen the opposite extreme - none of my main cars weigh much over 900Kg. I start by minimising the weight and limit the power to fit the class I want. A stray leaf blowing by unsettles them But the physics works as it should in that respect, so they have excellent cornering speed once I get the wheels, tyres and suspension settings sorted.

As you, I use keyboard.

Unusual choice for a serious racing gamer. Racing games are the only type of game for which KB+M is badly suited. Most serious racing gamers use analogue input devices, usually a wheel and pedals....
I'm mostly doing time trials in CarX Street now. Currently on 62 1st places and I've finally put together a low C6 car (heavily modified FLD, which I think is a Datsun 240Z) that's good enough for me to get 1st for many of them. Plus a silly unlimited class maximum everything lambo that does >400 and is only really usable in a straight line. But it makes me smile and it strolls through a few of the time trials.

I'm having more fun in C1-C4 (except for Western Sierra, which we all agree is an anomaly in terms of difficulty). I'm not really good enough for higher classes than that. I'm getting on a bit. I don't have the reaction speed I had 50 years ago.

So, you are a veteran racing game player like I am 🤣, cool!

I have a ffb wheel, it's been in storage for more than a year because we sold our house last year, I'm building a new one in a few weeks, been preparing for it for months. Meanwhile we're in an apt. Not enough space to set up. However, I only ever used it for about a year when I was playing NFS Most Wanted 2005...and earlier for a few months on High Stakes. I've always managed well with kb.

Keep grinding, once you get the 100x R1 you'll get the free C70 which is a blast. I already had one which I also maxed out, did the >400km with that one.

Just collected my AR8 from the Time Trial. Second one I collect, first one was the regular one, this one is the one from the trial top 100. Pretty sweet!

Cheers!

To think that if they hadn't done this (put AI Opponents with higher classed vehicles in class-restricted Clubs), we would probably never had wanted or needed the Difficulty levels selector. Most racing games have that anyway though. Western Sierra is the most affected/hardest Club, quite the anomaly, but Black Lotus and Speedline Syndicate are also relatively hard compared to other Clubs, but that is to be expected as you reach higher Class Clubs.

They still should fix this issue and a few others like the fact Drifting points in Races/events and Street Challenges only give you a little less than 50% of what you get in free roam open world.

A few other needed fixes are the 30 day Elite races reset, the un-win previously won races in Elite races when you lose (get punished in three ways, you lose the race and its prizes, you lose the 2x multiplier, you lose a previously won race, how wonderful).

I'd say, if they fixed these, the game would be almost perfect and ready for some added wanted stuff, keeping in mind that added visual effects such as damages can slow PC/system performance. Until they fix these serious needed things which they should focus on, other stuff should be of lower priority.

The worse part of all this is that it was already pissing-me-off as it was, now that I've discovered yet again what I am beginning to believe is intentional malicious (or incompetent, pick your preference) programming, I'm even more aggravated when I lose a race!

The combination of the AI Opponents already being dirty racers, when the ramming starts, it doesn't end easy. I did about 45 minutes on it and managed to get from Level 8 to almost being done 9 and hitting 10 but the AI started at it again with ramming and swiping me from the rear to wipe me out every chance they get...and for the life of me I cannot shake it off. They were on me like assassins again. It took me 2 hours to get to Level 10!

It's bloody aggravating as hell! Every time I lose a race, I lose the 2x and a previous race along with it!!! It causes a lot of frustration and a burning infuriating desire to kick someone in the teeth! lol

One thing that is particularly important and which is detrimental to making it 'possible' to do this Club and its Elite series of races is you MUST have a very well set up and excruciatingly fast vehicle. I'm using the E86 and I cannot even get the darn thing to take off like the one in one of the races (where you are against just 1 AI Opponent and it has the E86 as well). Nonetheless, the way I set it up it almost gets as fast a start as the AI, barely falling behind it. Eventually, I catch up and on top speed is where I take over.

That DX7 however, any time you get it as an AI Opponent, watch out! You almost need to crash it or the other opponent to be able to beat it. The other opponent will try to knock you out, swipe you, and try to make it so the other car wins. It's obvious AI take care of each other as a team...and on traffic filled races the AI Traffic assist them, like an organisation of assassins.

It's fine to be up against multiple AI Opponents, but when the only one or even one of many has a higher class advantage over you, forget trying to catch up to it after recovering from a crash...or in these above cases an attempt on your life! 🙄

From what I can tell, that DX7 is in at least 3 races, one of which it is alone. I manage to beat it maybe half of the time.

After 2 hours to get from Level 8 to Level 10 is too much and I can't stress enough the fact that it's not me! It is definitely the game that is programmed to make you lose and punishes you massively when you do (lose 2x, lose previous win) by setting you back more than the loss of just each race lost.

I could post a few videos I took...showing how fast that DX7 is...and to prove it is not where it should be...if anyone asks. Otherwise, any player or Dev, just go try the Western Sierra Club and its Elite races yourself!

OP has graphomania.

I just decided to take my new C2 car to the Western Sierra for elite races, just for funsies. Staying on medium difficulty, which is what I usually play on.

First race...I got neatly pitted on the first turn by one of the AI cars. My car is a lightweight (918Kg) car specifically set up for cornering speed. The car that rammed me could not have made that turn at that speed - it was programmed to ram. Rear quarter impact, ramming speed.

Second race...it's the DX7. Goodbye! Faster off the line, faster acceleration, faster cornering, faster everything all the time. I was ~4s behind at the finish line.

So I took the same car back to the Kento C2 club. Where I won the next elite race (I'm currently on L5 elite) by such a large margin that the other 3 cars didn't even appear on the minimap for the second lap.

Western Sierra is wildly anomalous. The step up in difficulty from the other C2 clubs is immense. It would be difficult in a C3 car.

Originally posted by <#aaff00>PUR’ STEP:

OP has graphomania.

Purely by some peoples' perspective such as you. If you don't like to read, you are not obliged, no one is twisting your arm. Does posting such a comment make you feel superior, cause it is the only thing that comes to mind when reading it lol I'm not saying that you are or aren't superior btw, just in case you need that clarification. Some people on here just hate to read, too lazy to do it. Not my problem. I care enough to point out detailed issues.

What has been your contribution? Oh right, stating an oh so obvious fact lol Congratulations captain obvious 🤣