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midnightdragoness has Together in Battle

5 Jun @ 4:35am

Psy fighters seem underpowered

I'm finding that I'm not using my psy fighters very much, and I think I know why: They have no means of manipulating enemy positions, which is what the battle system is built around. Fighters all get Shove and/or Pull, cavaliers can push with Charge, and bowmen can push with Trueshaft, but psy fighters get nothing. I'm also finding that bowmen have better range and comparable damage to their elemental blasts. Honestly, I kind of regret getting a kineticist and a psy fighter instead of two kineticists, because kineticists are just so much more useful. It's a real shame, given that this series was conceived around psychics as main characters, to see psychics fall off so much in gameplay.

(The debate around bronze golems feeling underpowered may be due to the same thing; stone golems specialize in position manipulation, which is incredibly powerful in this game, while bronze golems get nothing on that front.)

May I recommend adding Kinetic Gust and Kinetic Pull to the skill pool for all psy users, like how all fighters get Shove? Servants of God established that telekinesis is a standard power for all psychics in this setting, so it would make sense.

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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments

Sinister Design [developer] 5 Jun @ 5:43am

Interesting. Thus far, other players have ranked the elemental psy fighter classes rather highly (see: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/508454943003308056/ , https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/596271068722797817/). After all, status effects are quite powerful in TIB--especially if you make use of items like binoculars and bifocals.

If I recall correctly, TRPG:SoG establishes that it's actually quite hard to use telekinesis! The protagonist is only to manipulate fairly small objects (like small chests and levers), and then only at fairly short range. (This is so even when they have advanced skills in one of the elemental disciplines.) It's only through intensive training and specialization that TIB's kineticist class can manipulate something as large and heavy as a person, and do so from so far away!

Lore aside, I'd be very hesitant to just give every psy fighter kinetic gust and kinetic pull, as that eats into the kineticist's niche. You can get knockback on regular psy fighter skills via a skill book (though this requires some luck), and can also learn knockback skills by multi-classing or building close friendships with other characters who know those skills.

Devil_JCS

5 Jun @ 6:23am

Originally posted by Sinister Design:
Interesting. Thus far, other players have ranked the elemental psy fighter classes rather highly (see: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/508454943003308056/ , https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/596271068722797817/). After all, status effects are quite powerful in TIB--especially if you make use of items like binoculars and bifocals.

If I recall correctly, TRPG:SoG establishes that it's actually quite hard to use telekinesis! The protagonist is only to manipulate fairly small objects (like small chests and levers), and then only at fairly short range. (This is so even when they have advanced skills in one of the elemental disciplines.) It's only through intensive training and specialization that TIB's kineticist class can manipulate something as large and heavy as a person, and do so from so far away!

Lore aside, I'd be very hesitant to just give every psy fighter kinetic gust and kinetic pull, as that eats into the kineticist's niche. You can get knockback on regular psy fighter skills via a skill book (though this requires some luck), and can also learn knockback skills by multi-classing or building close friendships with other characters who know those skills.

Yeah, I wouldn't give them gust and pull in your shoes either. Kineticist is already a niche class; they don't need to have something steal that niche.

Reclassing can be hit or miss though. Like the last Kineticist I tried to reclass had nothing but physical classes available for reclassing, which SUCKED . Unless the classes available for reclassing are just random for each time you go to the trainer, it might be a good idea to just make it so that there's always at least 1 Psi Class available for characters that have a higher than 0 Psi stat.

Sinister Design [developer] 5 Jun @ 6:40am

Originally posted by Devil_JCS:
the last Kineticist I tried to reclass had nothing but physical classes available for reclassing, which SUCKED

Er...are you sure? Did you click the "more options" arrow on the right side of the screen? Generally, every character can reclass into every other class available to their species if they have a Psy stat above zero.

Devil_JCS

5 Jun @ 6:46am

Originally posted by Sinister Design:
Originally posted by Devil_JCS:
the last Kineticist I tried to reclass had nothing but physical classes available for reclassing, which SUCKED

Er...are you sure? Did you click the "more options" arrow on the right side of the screen? Generally, every character can reclass into every other class available to their species if they have a Psy stat above zero.

Oh lol@me, I didn't even see the arrows on that screen. Nevermind then.

midnightdragoness has Together in Battle

6 Jun @ 5:49am

Originally posted by Sinister Design:
Interesting. Thus far, other players have ranked the elemental psy fighter classes rather highly (see: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/508454943003308056/ , https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/596271068722797817/). After all, status effects are quite powerful in TIB--especially if you make use of items like binoculars and bifocals.

Huh, that's surprising to me. I generally avoid relying on status effects due to the randomness, and prefer direct damage. I just don't see much point in trying to freeze or blind an enemy when Trueshaft into an obstacle is guaranteed to kill pretty much anything. (Even then, spriggats can inflict the same status ailments on multiple characters at once.) I find barudit traps much better for disabling enemies I can't kill, since they don't compete with an attacking action.

Maybe my opinion will change once I get the AoE abilities, but my psy fighters still haven't learned them despite being around level 15. Were they changed to be promotion-exclusive?

Devil_JCS

6 Jun @ 11:52am

Originally posted by midnightdragoness:
Originally posted by Sinister Design:
Interesting. Thus far, other players have ranked the elemental psy fighter classes rather highly (see: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/508454943003308056/ , https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/1267210/discussions/0/596271068722797817/). After all, status effects are quite powerful in TIB--especially if you make use of items like binoculars and bifocals.
Huh, that's surprising to me. I generally avoid relying on status effects due to the randomness, and prefer direct damage. I just don't see much point in trying to freeze or blind an enemy when Trueshaft into an obstacle is guaranteed to kill pretty much anything. (Even then, spriggats can inflict the same status ailments on multiple characters at once.) I find barudit traps much better for disabling enemies I can't kill, since they don't compete with an attacking action.

Maybe my opinion will change once I get the AoE abilities, but my psy fighters still haven't learned them despite being around level 15. Were they changed to be promotion-exclusive?

It can be random when they learn those. Like I have a custom Dark Psi character (I can't spell the name, lol) that typically gets Dark Vortex at around 15-17 if I recall correctly. Anyway, it should be around 15+ or after promotion when they get them. Other than Pyro, as they do get a few early (Pyro Hail and if you're lucky, Heat Wave).

midnightdragoness has Together in Battle

11 Jun @ 6:59pm

So, an update: I just finished the game, and in the final battle I oneshot Dayaan with a Kinetic Gale that dealt around 100 damage. (I probably could have killed both her and Ajit if I had used Kinetic Surge instead of Kinetic Wave on the previous turn.) No psy fighter can get anywhere near to that level of damage. I rest my case.

Maybe there should be some damper on the damage scaling for multi-push skills? Kineticists probably couldn't stay competitive if they couldn't boost their damage that way, but allowing them to deal potentially triple their psy stat is too much.

efFLeX 5 Jul @ 5:07am

kavga yok beyler

Belzeberto has Together in Battle

6 Jul @ 8:50am

I don't think they are underpowered, but I find they are really dependant on the AOE abilities. The status RNG also isn't ideal, but you can mitigate it by stacking accuracy, you get 1/2 of accuracy over 100% as a boost to status chances. Getting to 150+ acc isn't too hard with the +20 orb, a +10 helm and a few books or training sessions, and that is already enough to guarantee immobilization and soften for skiakineticists, and turning off all enemies in a 3x3 area for two turns is really powerful.

Kineticists on the other hand i find to be more feast or famine, if you get good knockback lines you are sniping two enemies for free, if you don't you're dealing one mindblast worth of damage.

I have found bronze golems to be really competent frontline tanks and they make great use of grapple chains to somewhat patch up their lack of push/pull attacks.

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Together in Battle > General Discussions > Topic Details

Date Posted: 5 Jun @ 4:35am

Posts: 9