left? how do you know this to be true?

Originally posted by d0x360:

left? how do you know this to be true?

https://twitter.com/GameDesignDan/status/1508749279153766402

If you read more below that tweet, it's less that they "left" and more that they ran out of money for development and had to find regular day jobs instead.

They didn't kill their own game. They ran out of fuel and decided that "Put out game that's technically playable but very messy, see about fixing it during free time later" was a better solution than "cancel the whole-ass thing and waste all that effort and a cool premise by never releasing anything at all".

This is a tragedy and not a "wah lame devs killed their game before it could even be good" situation.

Originally posted by Aegix Drakan:

If you read more below that tweet, it's less that they "left" and more that they ran out of money for development and had to find regular day jobs instead.

They didn't kill their own game. They ran out of fuel and decided that "Put out game that's technically playable but very messy, see about fixing it during free time later" was a better solution than "cancel the whole-ass thing and waste all that effort and a cool premise by never releasing anything at all".

This is a tragedy and not a "wah lame devs killed their game before it could even be good" situation.

Not knowing how to manage money when making a game, is entirely the fault of the people making it. That's part of running a business, I have 0 sympathy for people who knew they needed a good deal of money and didn't have it and then right when the game releases in a garbage state say "oh sorry we ran out of money". It was their job to know how much money they needed on day 1, so yes, it is their fault for running out of money. Incompetence is not a defense, especially considering what a buggy game this turned out to be.

Being someone who actually works in game dev and has seen how fragile the survival of a small studio can get, even when run by people who know 100% what they're doing and are good with money, even in the very few years I've worked in that space...

I have considerable sympathy for these guys.

Sometimes, unexpected ♥♥♥♥ happens. Sometimes the funding you have ends up not being enough for various reasons. Sometimes, a core system ends up needing a rework in order to fit the now greater scope of the game, delaying launch by months. Game dev is nowhere near easy work. If you have a publisher, that can get even messier.

Most of the indie space is held up by nothing but matchsticks and a dream, with devs running purely on passion, trying to get that one big break they need to be successful.

I share your frustration that the game is busted (I know I won't be able to play it until they at least fix the geometry making parts of the house look like they're floating and stuff). I concur that the game is dead on arrival with basically no hope of ever being fully realized.

I understand your anger that they released it in this state.

But I do not share that anger.

The devs clearly tried. This isn't some cash grab asset flip. It's someone's dream game that fell apart at the finish line. And IMO that's just sad.

Originally posted by Aegix Drakan:

Being someone who actually works in game dev and has seen how fragile the survival of a small studio can get, even when run by people who know 100% what they're doing and are good with money, even in the very few years I've worked in that space...

I have considerable sympathy for these guys.

Sometimes, unexpected ♥♥♥♥ happens. Sometimes the funding you have ends up not being enough for various reasons. Sometimes, a core system ends up needing a rework in order to fit the now greater scope of the game, delaying launch by months. Game dev is nowhere near easy work. If you have a publisher, that can get even messier.

Most of the indie space is held up by nothing but matchsticks and a dream, with devs running purely on passion, trying to get that one big break they need to be successful.

I share your frustration that the game is busted (I know I won't be able to play it until they at least fix the geometry making parts of the house look like they're floating and stuff). I concur that the game is dead on arrival with basically no hope of ever being fully realized.

I understand your anger that they released it in this state.

But I do not share that anger.

The devs clearly tried. This isn't some cash grab asset flip. It's someone's dream game that fell apart at the finish line. And IMO that's just sad.

What I'm saying is, lets say this was you and me right? And we ran out of money and it comes time to release this game, I wouldn't release it. I would sit on it, because here's what happens now, you have a product that CAN be good, and CAN be unique, but because we released it in this state, there is 0 chance anyone will ever want to have anything to do with us and our games ever again. People don't really care for excuses and problems, they only want to see results and solutions. And since they have neither, them releasing this game was a huge mistake, as is clearly shown in the overwhelmingly negative reviews.

And to add insult to injury AFTER release the devs go "well we wish we could fix it but we already have other jobs". So it's like, ok now you released a game that could still work if it were fixed but you've basically said you have no time or money to fix it so you released an unfinished product that there's 0 reason to buy.

Originally posted by Tactrix:

What I'm saying is, lets say this was you and me right? And we ran out of money and it comes time to release this game, I wouldn't release it. I would sit on it, because here's what happens now, you have a product that CAN be good, and CAN be unique, but because we released it in this state, there is 0 chance anyone will ever want to have anything to do with us and our games ever again. People don't really care for excuses and problems, they only want to see results and solutions. And since they have neither, them releasing this game was a huge mistake, as is clearly shown in the overwhelmingly negative reviews.

And to add insult to injury AFTER release the devs go "well we wish we could fix it but we already have other jobs". So it's like, ok now you released a game that could still work if it were fixed but you've basically said you have no time or money to fix it so you released an unfinished product that there's 0 reason to buy.

That's why I understand your frustration. I feel it too. I'm terribly disappointed.

I wouldn't have released the game either.

Hell, I personally don't even put out free releases of my hobby-level RPGmaker stuff online until I'm sure it's ready for release (I'm sitting on at least 2 "fully playable" games that aren't in a state I feel is worthy of being played by the world at large)

But I understand why these guys decided to put out something busted rather than nothing. Probably so they had something they could show to people and say "we tried making something really unique and ambitious as hell, even if it didn't end up great".

It's a risk with very little reward, and one I personally wouldn't be comfortable with. Because this game IS pretty busted and likely won't make more than two dozen full sales in its lifetime, tops.

But they likely figured that they would never be able to fully get the game to the level it needed to be at and were deciding "either we never release anything and all that time and effort is completely wasted, or we put out something broken that shows the level of ambition we were aiming for".

Given one can see how busted the game is in considerably less than an hour tops, people can get painless refunds. The only thing truly lost is potential.

Originally posted by Aegix Drakan:

Originally posted by Tactrix:

What I'm saying is, lets say this was you and me right? And we ran out of money and it comes time to release this game, I wouldn't release it. I would sit on it, because here's what happens now, you have a product that CAN be good, and CAN be unique, but because we released it in this state, there is 0 chance anyone will ever want to have anything to do with us and our games ever again. People don't really care for excuses and problems, they only want to see results and solutions. And since they have neither, them releasing this game was a huge mistake, as is clearly shown in the overwhelmingly negative reviews.

And to add insult to injury AFTER release the devs go "well we wish we could fix it but we already have other jobs". So it's like, ok now you released a game that could still work if it were fixed but you've basically said you have no time or money to fix it so you released an unfinished product that there's 0 reason to buy.

That's why I understand your frustration. I feel it too. I'm terribly disappointed.

I wouldn't have released the game either.

Hell, I personally don't even put out free releases of my hobby-level RPGmaker stuff online until I'm sure it's ready for release (I'm sitting on at least 2 "fully playable" games that aren't in a state I feel is worthy of being played by the world at large)

But I understand why these guys decided to put out something busted rather than nothing. Probably so they had something they could show to people and say "we tried making something really unique and ambitious as hell, even if it didn't end up great".

It's a risk with very little reward, and one I personally wouldn't be comfortable with. Because this game IS pretty busted and likely won't make more than two dozen full sales in its lifetime, tops.

But they likely figured that they would never be able to fully get the game to the level it needed to be at and were deciding "either we never release anything and all that time and effort is completely wasted, or we put out something broken that shows the level of ambition we were aiming for".

Given one can see how busted the game is in considerably less than an hour tops, people can get painless refunds. The only thing truly lost is potential.

Such a shame, because the concepts are all there, it's just so unfinished...

We can't know the full story without a proper statement (a few vague tweets don't really count) but it's entirely possible that contractual obligations with the publisher left them with the choice of "publish it broken and potentially work on it later" or "relegate it to the archives and never see it again". They're both bad outcomes but maybe one is less bad than the other.

If it was a pure passion project then maybe they could have suspended development and come back to it later, but once you have a publisher in the picture, you lose a lot of agency. It's not uncommon for games to simply be cancelled if the publisher doesn't feel they can release on time. Again, who knows what's actually happening behind the scenes. For now at least, I think disappointment rather than anger is the way to go.

Originally posted by Jake:

We can't know the full story without a proper statement (a few vague tweets don't really count) but it's entirely possible that contractual obligations with the publisher left them with the choice of "publish it broken and potentially work on it later" or "relegate it to the archives and never see it again". They're both bad outcomes but maybe one is less bad than the other.

If it was a pure passion project then maybe they could have suspended development and come back to it later, but once you have a publisher in the picture, you lose a lot of agency. It's not uncommon for games to simply be cancelled if the publisher doesn't feel they can release on time. Again, who knows what's actually happening behind the scenes. For now at least, I think disappointment rather than anger is the way to go.

You know what it is, it's the state of this industry that bothers me so much. First No Man's Sky released in a dismal state, and thank god they fixed that game, but it took them like 4 years to get it back on track, then the cyberpunk 2077 disaster, that game is still in a dismal state, and it'll be another year before they get it to a point of where it's actually working more or less the way we wanted it to upon release. A good chunk of all RPG maker games have bugs to where they just don't work properly. And then comes along this game that gets released and then abandoned right out the gate. It's just painful, that's what it is.

Originally posted by Tactrix:

Such a shame, because the concepts are all there, it's just so unfinished...

For real. They were so close. :(

Just a few more core fixes, a bit more polish and it could have been a diamond in the rough, like the early Spiders games (you know, the Technomancer, and stuff)... :(

Originally posted by Jake:

but it's entirely possible that contractual obligations with the publisher left them with the choice of "publish it broken and potentially work on it later" or "relegate it to the archives and never see it again".

Definitely possible. :(

Originally posted by Tactrix:

You know what it is, it's the state of this industry that bothers me so much.

Yup. It's not an easy industry to either be in, or be a fan of. Finding studios you can trust to deliver (while not horribly abusing their employees with endless crunch and worse) is difficult.

Treasuring the good ones we find is all we can really do. And even then, they can disappoint us.

A good chunk of all RPG maker games have bugs to where they just don't work properly

Off topic, but as someone who goes out of my way to make sure that the free stuff I put out is actually worth playing... I am severely frustrated at the number of people who have put out broken messes, for actual *SALE*.

Like, RPGmaker is a surprisingly solid engine for making RPGs, but because so many people have churned out junk, and then charged money for it...It's gotten a really unfair rap entirely. :(

well i stand corrected. i tweeted him and said...

wait no... there is a great game here but it needs a bit more love. controller support (its in the options but doesnt work) and some bug fixes. Also maybe some of the janky feel fixed...but a controller would solve that. so much potential here, shame really

Originally posted by Aegix Drakan:

Being someone who actually works in game dev and has seen how fragile the survival of a small studio can get, even when run by people who know 100% what they're doing and are good with money, even in the very few years I've worked in that space...

I have considerable sympathy for these guys.

Sometimes, unexpected ♥♥♥♥ happens. Sometimes the funding you have ends up not being enough for various reasons. Sometimes, a core system ends up needing a rework in order to fit the now greater scope of the game, delaying launch by months. Game dev is nowhere near easy work. If you have a publisher, that can get even messier.

Most of the indie space is held up by nothing but matchsticks and a dream, with devs running purely on passion, trying to get that one big break they need to be successful.

I share your frustration that the game is busted (I know I won't be able to play it until they at least fix the geometry making parts of the house look like they're floating and stuff). I concur that the game is dead on arrival with basically no hope of ever being fully realized.

I understand your anger that they released it in this state.

But I do not share that anger.

The devs clearly tried. This isn't some cash grab asset flip. It's someone's dream game that fell apart at the finish line. And IMO that's just sad.

No wonder that most indie devs release nothing but trend chasing, derivative 2D pixel vomit roguelikes, "horror" asset flip walking sims, and metroidvanias. Rpg maker is a meme. Learn to create your own assets. Back then, you had to actually know your profession instead of flipping assets for 50$. That's why there is so much crap on Steam. Every other job branch has to deliver quality and finished products. If you don't have the resources then save up before ruining your name

Originally posted by Tactrix:

Originally posted by d0x360:

left? how do you know this to be true?

https://twitter.com/GameDesignDan/status/1508749279153766402

Thanks, time for refund.

I hope it is not the same context as this one:
https://steamhost.cn/app/1247100/SpellMaster_The_Saga/
This one was supposed to be EA but apparently the publisher did not wish to, and it all went into a refund fest and bad reviews.

Personally I like Abermore as it is, just the bugs that are game killing, but the idea is great. I hope devs will be able to put more time to fix things ... Unlike the one I mention above, I will keep this one since the state is better and want them to be paid for their efforts.