Lack of escape options :: Soulash General Discussions

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Looshnya

10 Mar, 2022 @ 5:20am

Lack of escape options

I did a few runs and noticed that when you encounter a stronger enemy, it is practically impossible to run away since they will chase you indefinitely, so basically if you run into a stronger enemy it is a game over in most scenarios. So it leaves us with four options:
1. Play as a nomad since they have sprint.
2. Play as any other class and blessrng pray for nomad sprint skill to show up on level up.
3. Try to memorize all enemy locations in every "biom" and avoid them beforehand, which is hard since game chooses spawnpoint at random from a pool of different locations.
4. Try to run around in hopes of loosing enemies. Not always works and is not very dependent from player, enemies are very persistent and it doesn't look like they run out of stamina, consistantly keeping a distance of 1-2 squares from you and not slowing down.

All of the options above make early game unnecessary hard and not fun (if you are not playing as a nomad). I don't know if there are any solutions to this in-game right now, if you know some escape strategies please share them here.

And some of the suggestions wich tackle this that I would propose to developer are:
- Make player choose a spawn point, which will make memorizing locations a lot easier and will help to avoid stronger enemies
- Make a new escape skill (a weaker version of Nomad sprint, or something entirely new) and make it guaraneed/highly probable to show up on 2nd level. Or some escape items as an alternative, speed/invisibility potions, immobilising traps, smoke bombs or something.
- Make enemies less persistent when chasing you, some way for them to loose interest. Maybe make them stop at a certain stamina percentage. Or make enemies of different tribes/races fight eachother, so while running away I would have an option to aggro my pursuers on someone else.

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Showing 1-15 of 22 comments

Total Oh No has Soulash

10 Mar, 2022 @ 5:30am

Nomad is not the only class with movement abilities. Poacher for example has a backroll that makes fleeing pretty easy.

Nozey

10 Mar, 2022 @ 6:55am

i had somebody tell me they would reroll the first level over and over til they got that nomad ability with every class due to archers and other ranged enemies having ridiculous sight range(huge INT), and that being the only way to close the gap without taking massive damage every time and to escape to heal

Forever Dunking 10 Mar, 2022 @ 9:56am

I tried to like this game, but every time I try to be careful I still get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by a higher level enermy out of nowhere without any warning and then I cant run away no matter what. it's bad design, durability I can cope with but this... it's too much.

Artur Smiarowski [developer] 10 Mar, 2022 @ 10:04am

You can also play as a dwarf berserker and look for an honorable death. Running away is for puny mortals.

Maybe this will help some of you:
- Fallen knight can reduce enemy movement speed by half a turn per tile on level 2 and has knockback on level 3.
- Poacher has incredible ability sense life that prevents any ambushes on level 2, and one of the best movement ability on level 3 for ranged characters
- Warlocks go pew pew and don't get an escape mechanism until high in the levels, it's a more difficult profession that requires a deeper understanding of the game mechanics (like Wet), not recommended for beginners
- Berserkers don't run away, they charge from level 2 and make people run from them on level 4.
- Nomads run super fast from level 2 and vanish completely on higher levels. They also kite groups of enemies really well from level 1.
- Necromancers have meatshields from level 1, just need to get some corpses rolling.
- Cultists don't have escape mechanisms and also need a deeper understanding of the game mechanics to be effective (physical/magic damage split for example), probably the most difficult profession to play.
- Inquisitor can burn everyone running backwards from level 1 without even stopping and they inflict fear on level 2.

There are also universal abilities that can help, like Vines or Grow Tree (you probably skipped the tree as a crappy ability, right? Try it when escaping)

I don't know about you guys, but it does seem like there are plenty of options, just need to get out of your comfort zone and stop picking the highest damage skills, or running blindly into the unknown.

Last edited by Artur Smiarowski; 10 Mar, 2022 @ 11:22am

Looshnya

10 Mar, 2022 @ 3:37pm

Originally posted by Artur Smiarowski:
You can also play as a dwarf berserker and look for an honorable death. Running away is for puny mortals.

Maybe this will help some of you:
- Fallen knight can reduce enemy movement speed by half a turn per tile on level 2 and has knockback on level 3.
- Poacher has incredible ability sense life that prevents any ambushes on level 2, and one of the best movement ability on level 3 for ranged characters
- Warlocks go pew pew and don't get an escape mechanism until high in the levels, it's a more difficult profession that requires a deeper understanding of the game mechanics (like Wet), not recommended for beginners
- Berserkers don't run away, they charge from level 2 and make people run from them on level 4.
- Nomads run super fast from level 2 and vanish completely on higher levels. They also kite groups of enemies really well from level 1.
- Necromancers have meatshields from level 1, just need to get some corpses rolling.
- Cultists don't have escape mechanisms and also need a deeper understanding of the game mechanics to be effective (physical/magic damage split for example), probably the most difficult profession to play.
- Inquisitor can burn everyone running backwards from level 1 without even stopping and they inflict fear on level 2.

There are also universal abilities that can help, like Vines or Grow Tree (you probably skipped the tree as a crappy ability, right? Try it when escaping)

I don't know about you guys, but it does seem like there are plenty of options, just need to get out of your comfort zone and stop picking the highest damage skills, or running blindly into the unknown.

Thank you, all of this seems reasonable, I will try it out.

David

10 Mar, 2022 @ 4:02pm

You can also try some universal tricks like running backwards, which can be done at level 1.

Movement makes noise, which is something else to consider. I'm not sure if terrain matters for hearing but some areas have more los-blockers, and you can run straight through bushes.

Ghost of Starman has Soulash

10 Mar, 2022 @ 8:48pm

I might be wrong, but my experience was that moving backwards is slower than moving forward (which makes intuitive sense, too). E.g., an aggressive gator was able to keep up with me and continued to chomp me while I was back-pedaling, but when I was able to turn around (sidestep, rotate-1, sidestep away, rotate-1 again, forward, rotate, forward forward forward etc.) I handily outran it back to my allies. Even as a bony boy Lvl 2 Necromancer Lich.

Unrelated, but that fight would've been a lot easier if my dang zombie-bros were more willing to follow me up/down stairs.

Feels like everytime I have to change vertical planes I pretty much have to rebuild my army from scratch.

suejak

11 Mar, 2022 @ 5:01am

I have tried to use the Fallen Knight's Cripple as an escape skill but it just simply did not work well enough to enable me to escape. Has anyone actually managed to use it effectively?

Does it need to be used in combination with another skill to be effective?

Berserker Charge can actually be used to run away, whatever the intent of the skill is. Just target something that is away from the thing you're running from. It requires a target but it's effectively just a run-away skill.

Last edited by suejak; 11 Mar, 2022 @ 5:02am

Sticks

11 Mar, 2022 @ 5:52am

In my last cultist run (top 3 woo) I got lunge pretty early on which seems like a purely offensive gap closer but actually ended up being an excellent tool for kiting and escaping and its cooldown is short enough that you can escape pretty much anything with it. Especially if you can kite them into buildings and then lunge to a point you can see through a window, because then they have to walk out the door and around the building to keep chasing you.

There's also phase shift that I could do thanks to an artifact cloak I found, which seemed functionally identical to lunge only without doing damage at the end point. Though I could barely justify spending the durability to use it when I could just wait a few turns and lunge again instead.

Another artifact cloak gives seven deadly sins which is the spookiest skill in the game, it forces the enemy back and immobilizes them with fear while applying a bunch of different status effects which can totally pacify any threat. It's actually what ended my run, I was neck deep in guards and townsfolk and then a random human citizen wearing that cloak comes up and slaps me with seven deadly sins and I'm sat there unable to to anything getting a beatdown from all sides. It was my hubris from having so many movement skills that even put me in that position in the first place though since hitting enemies on all sides with lunge is huge, but yeah don't let it go to your head.

Total Oh No has Soulash

11 Mar, 2022 @ 5:55am

Originally posted by Ghost of Starman:
I might be wrong, but my experience was that moving backwards is slower than moving forward (which makes intuitive sense, too). E.g., an aggressive gator was able to keep up with me and continued to chomp me while I was back-pedaling, but when I was able to turn around (sidestep, rotate-1, sidestep away, rotate-1 again, forward, rotate, forward forward forward etc.) I handily outran it back to my allies. Even as a bony boy Lvl 2 Necromancer Lich.

When you look at the cooldown of your abilities, you can see that the same amount of time passes no matter if you move forward or backward.
It's possible that a lich has worse movement speed than a human though.

#10

ColdWonder has Soulash

11 Mar, 2022 @ 11:23am

In my current game as goblin cultisti learnt 'Vines' which helps when it works and you get out of view and found a staff called "The Corruptor" that makes them fight for you for 6 turns(use it to run) but you can only corrupt them once and it has a limited number of casts.

Last edited by ColdWonder; 11 Mar, 2022 @ 11:26am

#11

Nefaro

11 Mar, 2022 @ 11:49am

Originally posted by Total Oh No:
Nomad is not the only class with movement abilities. Poacher for example has a backroll that makes fleeing pretty easy.

The problem with the Backroll ability is that your move back 3 squares yet will still be facing towards your opponent. Who is already coming at you.

Since turning uses a partial turn, by the time you angle towards an escape route, they're already close enough to continue easily chasing you.

This game definitely needs more reliable ways of escaping. My few successful escapes having taken a very long effort, and still only worked due to some degree of luck in finding a very dense LOS blocking area. Even then they still seem to look around for you.

Their vision distance also appears to be further than yours so it's difficult to know when evasion has worked since I turn off the music in most of my games.

#12

Total Oh No has Soulash

11 Mar, 2022 @ 3:37pm

Originally posted by Nefaro:
Originally posted by Total Oh No:
Nomad is not the only class with movement abilities. Poacher for example has a backroll that makes fleeing pretty easy.

The problem with the Backroll ability is that your move back 3 squares yet will still be facing towards your opponent. Who is already coming at you.

Since turning uses a partial turn, by the time you angle towards an escape route, they're already close enough to continue easily chasing you.

I don't understand. Why do you need to turn around? You can just run backwards. Take three steps, do the backroll, repeat until you're safe.
When running away, you should run towards areas that you have already scouted/cleared out, so you don't really need to face in the direction where you're going.

#13

404NotAFlounder has Soulash

11 Mar, 2022 @ 3:40pm

Originally posted by Total Oh No:
I don't understand. Why do you need to turn around? You can just run backwards.

Elaborating slightly: If using Directional Movement, hold `Left Ctrl` to move without rotating. If you're doing the other one, I think you just hit `s` or whatever.

Last edited by 404NotAFlounder; 11 Mar, 2022 @ 3:41pm

#14