Ghostlore
adam  [developer] 1 Jun, 2023 @ 2:45pm
Feedback for upcoming balance update.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, keep it coming! Especially specific feedback on useless/very overpowered skills, I feel like I'm way behind the meta on things there. Here is what I have so far balance wise:

-Hell levels monster level jump by 5 instead of 4, smaller maps.
-Higher chance for hell levels to roll more affixes from institute pool, making it harder.
-Lower base ingot drop chance, big boost in ingot drop rate from hell level depth.
-Chance for items to drop with shrine of balance affix??
-Buffs to institute map data affixes, corresponding increase in difficulty?
-Slight increase in monster level/difficulty from level ~15 onwards?
-Free skill respec book from level 15 class change quest?
-Increase to potion cooldown time.
-Greatly reduce fury, trigger on critical hit proc chance.
-Fixing elemental mastery will probably affect builds relying on it.
-Easy inventory size modding through csv.
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
SciFiGuy 1 Jun, 2023 @ 3:09pm 
Love the game! So excited at your post. I can't wait for updates.

I think Respec books should be much much cheaper. I have to grind for like 25minutes or so to buy one. Most of my fun in the game comes from trying different specs. Sometimes I find myself broke and weak at the behest of trying to respec for fun. Or maybe different tiers of books at different price scales. They could respec 1, 2 or 3 classes respectively. For example I really love Hashashin and Geo, and I've spent almost all my in game gold buying respec books to try out different other class combinations instead of dumping into reroll mechanics which I'd like to. I just feel there's so many things I haven't tried yet.

Hell maps need to be way smaller. My builds focus on spamable dashing without cooldown, and it takes me what feels like upwards of 10minutes to find the exit on a single hellmap sometimes. Maybe have like, 33% be super big still, but most of them smaller. It's fun to get lost and try to zoom to the end, but map variety is key I think.

Please be careful with big number tweaks. Maybe instead of toning down trigger on crit, reduce the restrictions on other triggers? For example the trigger on movement feels pretty bad, because it does not increase the cast speed at all. So you dash then cast then dash then cast and it's really slow. You can use other trees to increase cast speed sure but then you're being confined into a one all trigger all fashion. I'd like to cast a buff on movement, then my dmg spells on attack, but it just doesn't work without the cast speed. Some classes straight up don't have the cast speed increase option on any trigger passives. I think they should all have the ability to increase cast speed on their own, even if it comes with its own weaknesses.

Lastly, I think the game needs some kind of combat log or increased legibility when it comes to damage done and damage taken. With that chain kill passive you can kind of see comparatively how much damage you're doing to dummies, as they die, trigger the counter and go up. So if I can get that buff to 100, that's more dps than if I can only get it to 60. Other than that I've found no way to really tell how much damage you're doing. When I did realize how to test it, I was very, very incorrect about many of my damage assumptions. My build changed completely, and I was able to push almost an entire higher hell level. The stats page itself on the character screen is wonderful, and very clear.

On the flip side with damage taken -- I spend 30minutes in hell 5 just dumping on literally everything, Only to be CC'd n 100 to zeroed in about 2 frames. It's really frustrating and I typically exit out of the game in anger....only to reboot it 2min later because it's great. The damage can be so spikey, even on pretty defensive builds, that it's hard to even know what happened or what to do about it. I'm trying really hard right now to get the hell 8 achievement without feral or exorcist. I'm progressing but the one shots sometimes feel inevitable. While I was destroying hell 5-1 through 5-10, I even joked to my friends "I think I'm doing great, but I really have no idea and might get 1shot" -- within 5minutes I got one shot. Granted I was playing a face tank playstyle, but why does it work so well for 30minutes straight only for some random mob to actually burst me down? Maybe I'm simply underestimating how the individual hell levels scale.

I absolutely adore this game. Thank you so much
Last edited by SciFiGuy; 2 Jun, 2023 @ 1:17pm
adam  [developer] 1 Jun, 2023 @ 7:53pm 
Thanks! Will give trigger on movement a trigger cast speed buff. But I think cast speed isn't too hard to stack with some gear/glyph investment?

Also would love to have a damage taken log too, unfortunately a bunch of work needed for that. Maybe as a mod which can dump it somewhere without needing to be pretty.
astranabeat 1 Jun, 2023 @ 8:30pm 
Alkarest all and locked items option plz.

For the balance. Please balance lion statue and last mob enemies ( forget name) damage. Other enemies will kill you if you don't kill them fast enough but these 2 can kill you in 1 second some times even 1 hit. Why? This made only build with Ice armor can clear higher Hell gate. A build without it, well enjoy your random 1 shot.
adam  [developer] 1 Jun, 2023 @ 10:01pm 
Originally posted by astranabeat:
Alkarest all and locked items option plz.

For the balance. Please balance lion statue and last mob enemies ( forget name) damage. Other enemies will kill you if you don't kill them fast enough but these 2 can kill you in 1 second some times even 1 hit. Why? This made only build with Ice armor can clear higher Hell gate. A build without it, well enjoy your random 1 shot.

Done with statue, but could you be more specific with "last mob", maybe a description? :steamhappy:
astranabeat 2 Jun, 2023 @ 2:07am 
Originally posted by adam:
Originally posted by astranabeat:
Alkarest all and locked items option plz.

For the balance. Please balance lion statue and last mob enemies ( forget name) damage. Other enemies will kill you if you don't kill them fast enough but these 2 can kill you in 1 second some times even 1 hit. Why? This made only build with Ice armor can clear higher Hell gate. A build without it, well enjoy your random 1 shot.

Done with statue, but could you be more specific with "last mob", maybe a description? :steamhappy:
Not on my PC right now but it's enemies that appear in last stage of main story. It has needle mouth like needle fish. Has wing like bat but don't fly. It the last enemies before boss in lore section.

If you can't figure it out. I will post again when I'm back at my PC.
emf  [developer] 2 Jun, 2023 @ 4:27am 
Aha, yeah I guessed correctly. Btw the update is up now on the beta branch
the chazz 2 Jun, 2023 @ 8:47am 
My only suggestion would be letting us use glyphs at the Hellforge if possible? You already let us upgrade glyphs at the blacksmith to give it an affix, it would be a huge quality of life boost if we could spend hell ingots on reforging it too.
the chazz 2 Jun, 2023 @ 5:23pm 
Also I don't think things need to be cheaper the respec book feels about right, it shouldn't be trivial to buy. What about a new affix though: "gold pickup radius"
Because right now you basically have to walk right on top of the coins in order to pick them up which can be tedious in endgame when you're going fast. When you have a melee build you don't notice it but projectile or minion builds since you're not in pickup range when the enemies die there's just clumps of coins everywhere
Last edited by the chazz; 2 Jun, 2023 @ 5:26pm
SciFiGuy 3 Jun, 2023 @ 2:04am 
I'm curious why you say the respec book should not be trivial to buy. What is there to gain from respeccing other than further knowledge of the game?

Every other thing you spend money on is either a straight upgrade, or a chance at an upgrade. Respeccing is a 100% lateral power adjustment.

What reason is there to lock the respec book behind an 80k price tag?

I've done the math -- there are 20 possible class combinations. I'm not going to level 20 characters up to lvl 50. Please consider lowering the respec cost so players can try to experience more of the game without needing to level 20 alts or grind 1.6 million in game gp.
Last edited by SciFiGuy; 3 Jun, 2023 @ 2:08am
the chazz 3 Jun, 2023 @ 5:23am 
It should not be a trivial purchase because your choices for your character should matter. In many arpgs they don't let you respec classes at all and among others it's for that reason. In Grim Dawn you can respec certain things like attribute points but you cannot change your chosen classes, you're locked in forever and that game has almost double the class combinations (36) and a far longer campaign than this game does. No one complains because the fun and longevity of these games in part comes from exactly this idea. Yeah I may have finished the game or killed this challenge boss, but I did it in a certain way, could I manage to do it as a summoner this time?!?
It allows each character you have to be unique, to have its own story. It allows you to be immersed and have fun creating characters. Instead of just one boring character that is constantly shifting with no identity.

Players already can experience more of the game. You will typically end up with around 30k after finishing the short main story and it wont take more than an hour of playing to get up to 80k from there by doing endgame content. It's already quite fair and that's not even including stacking gold multiplier affixes.
You want to experience the whole game and you want it basically handed to you for free? 20x anything is still going to be a lot. How much do you think they should reduce it by, 50%? That's still almost a million you'll have to "grind"

Fun fact: You want to test out the game? Save up 80k, turn off autosave, save the game, buy a respec book, use it and test out skill setups or whatever else you want to for as long as you want, load the game, do this 18 more times, further your knowledge to the moon, load the game a final time and turn autosave back on. You have just respecced 19x for free.
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