Originally posted by Dasyatis:

Hi, I usually never use eyes dropped from bosses and I sold them as it always appears better to me using other gems like vellinque or whorlbarb. But now I'm wondering if anyone had better results with boss eyes?

Boss Eyes offer less than Skulls however are useful to acquire certain Affixes before NG+ where they shine as early assets for builds.

Still viable for end-game if seeking to build faster and lighter on numbers than Skull farming.

Difficult to justify filling survival Sockets without Limony or Riechliu Skulls - however for Weapon sockets - Eyes are decent for damage boosts.

It's similar to comparing Unique equips against Rares.

Damage is easy to build in this game... as long as Enemy Armor is getting lowered or Criticals are invested during progression.

Originally posted by steffire3:

Originally posted by Dasyatis:

Hi, I usually never use eyes dropped from bosses and I sold them as it always appears better to me using other gems like vellinque or whorlbarb. But now I'm wondering if anyone had better results with boss eyes?

Boss Eyes offer less than Skulls however are useful to acquire certain Affixes before NG+ where they shine as early assets for builds.

Still viable for end-game if seeking to build faster and lighter on numbers than Skull farming.

Difficult to justify filling survival Sockets without Limony or Riechliu Skulls however for Weapon sockets - Eyes are decent for damage boosts.

It's similar to comparing Unique equips against Rares.

I think skulls are better most of the time but I heard about glacial spike spell item that is really overpowered on a 1h mace that has 25% proc.

Damage is easy to build in this game... as long as Enemy Armor is getting lowered or Criticals are invested during progression.

The problem is that the game doesn't give any information about enemies's armor. I don't know how much reduction armor is needed since I don't know the armor's value of the enemies. It's different with HP that can be easily estimate.

Originally posted by Dasyatis:

I think skulls are better most of the time but I heard about glacial spike spell item that is really overpowered on a 1h mace that has 25% proc.

The problem is that the game doesn't give any information about enemies's armor. I don't know how much reduction armor is needed since I don't know the armor's value of the enemies. It's different with HP that can be easily estimate.

Hammer of Retribution is one of the best items regarding the 25% Chance. Having one Chance at high number is usually better than 4 sockets filled with the same at low Chances.

True, although even having one Socket on the Weapon with Enemy Armor Reduction is usually enough - as long as something reduces Enemy Armor - there's a box above the Target Dummy in town that shows how much of the DeBuff is stacking and it can be quite high hence negate Elite Armor to allow most damage through.

Originally posted by steffire3:

Originally posted by Dasyatis:

I think skulls are better most of the time but I heard about glacial spike spell item that is really overpowered on a 1h mace that has 25% proc.

The problem is that the game doesn't give any information about enemies's armor. I don't know how much reduction armor is needed since I don't know the armor's value of the enemies. It's different with HP that can be easily estimate.

Hammer of Retribution is one of the best items regarding the 25% Chance. Having one Chance at high number is usually better than 4 sockets filled with the same at low Chances.

True, although even having one Socket on the Weapon with Enemy Armor Reduction is usually enough - as long as something reduces Enemy Armor - there's a box above the Target Dummy in town that shows how much of the DeBuff is stacking and it can be quite high hence negate Elite Armor to allow most damage through.

When I check the box above the dummy I only see the duration of the debuff but no stacks. Does armor reduction really stacks?

Originally posted by Dasyatis:

When I check the box above the dummy I only see the duration of the debuff but no stacks. Does armor reduction really stacks?

Admittedly TL2 doesn't actually count stacks however the Armor Reduction number will fluctuate based on how many times the Target (or Dummy) has been struck.

May also need to turn on "Verbose" with in-game Settings regarding Damage Numbers.

Verbose is turned on already here. Do you use a mod or something to get that?

Originally posted by Dasyatis:

Verbose is turned on already here. Do you use a mod or something to get that?

Hmm... some items don't show their numbers in the small boxes... I do use Essentials so if there's any UI mods changing it - it's from that source.

Damage is easy to build in this game... as long as Enemy Armor is getting lowered or Criticals are invested during progression.

I agree about the criticals.
But I just did some tests about armor reduction efficiency in act 4 and even when using many armor reduction items I barely see the damage difference, the damage gain is like +2 or 3% only. If I'm not wrong an armor reduction oriented stuff is pretty useless. Much better to use raw damage an critical hit chance bonus in my opinion. What do you think?

Originally posted by Dasyatis:

Damage is easy to build in this game... as long as Enemy Armor is getting lowered or Criticals are invested during progression.

I agree about the criticals.
But I just did some tests about armor reduction efficiency in act 4 and even when using many armor reduction items I barely see the damage difference, the damage gain is like +2 or 3% only. If I'm not wrong an armor reduction oriented stuff is pretty useless. Much better to use raw damage an critical hit chance bonus in my opinion. What do you think?

Armor Reduction is mostly useful for direct weapon attacks as that suffers the most regarding auto-attack builds on Elite.

Skills have a much easier time getting past enemy armor in comparison.

= = = =

Another very rare and useful affix for direct weapon attack builds is Fumble Chance Reduction and is only available from a secret npc hidden in the Bloatfang boss room in Act 03.

Not me over here using "Shred Armor" passive on Berserker with dual claws (50% armor penetration) and 100% crit rate. >.>;

(I favor Bonepry Wedge. It's just too good.)

I tend to agree that eyes are a lot more useful on New Game than at higher levels. Grell's Eye is an obvious choice. The only eye I find myself using consistently on my 'finished' builds is "The Eye of the Netherlord" to reach 100% Slow Resistance with Willpower VI, but even that is more of a preference thing.

I also tend to agree with steffire3 that "Damage is easy to build in this game...", and I spend a lot more sockets on ensuring survival than I do on increasing damage. Your damage should be mostly covered by skills, gear choice, weapon sockets, and enchants. Armor sockets are almost always best used for Damage Reduction (75%) and Health (Riechliu).

Originally posted by Cannonaire:

Not me over here using "Shred Armor" passive on Berserker with dual claws (50% armor penetration) and 100% crit rate. >.>;

(I favor Bonepry Wedge. It's just too good.)

Berserker provides great natural skills for shredding enemy Armor.

What would intrigue me is how much benefit a Melee skill-built Outlander gains if provided Armor-shreds from equipment as it has no native skills to support this easily.
Getting Eviscerate Chances from a Unique Weapon is appreciated for the Outlander.

Originally posted by steffire3:

Getting Eviscerate Chances from a Unique Weapon is appreciated for the Outlander.

I'm assuming you don't mean Eviscerate, the Berserker skill...? It doesn't destroy armor according to the wiki. Then again, that wouldn't be the first error I've run into there.

Circling back to the thread's topic, it looks like "The Eye of Winter Widow" at level 100 does the best armor shred at -180 per hit. I should have several of them to use if I try it out.

Originally posted by Cannonaire:

I'm assuming you don't mean Eviscerate, the Berserker skill...? It doesn't destroy armor according to the wiki. Then again, that wouldn't be the first error I've run into there.

The Equipment version of Eviscerate (equivalent to Rank 01 of the Berserker Skill):
https://torchlight.fandom.com/wiki/The_Beast_with_a_Million_Eyes
Although being a Legendary Weapon - it's too rarely random to expect a drop except during a surprise farming session (on second thought).
It doesn't shred Armor although the Damage-over-Time does bypass Armor.

I see. I have four available "Skull of Zardon", so maybe I can try those. I wish they were "Zardon's Mighty Skull" instead though. :(

Netherrealm Claw also has that Eviscerate, albeit with only 5% chance.

Originally posted by Cannonaire:

I see. I have four available "Skull of Zardon", so maybe I can try those. I wish they were "Zardon's Mighty Skull" instead though. :(

Netherrealm Claw also has that Eviscerate, albeit with only 5% chance.

Your intuitive mentions in this thread are all good - I'm looking to see if I can suggest any other options as you've asked in the other thread for the build.

Netherrealm Weapons are great options for their 4 Sockets even if their Chances to activate events are lower than Legends and other Uniques.

Netherrealm is as close as this game gets to the idea of an end-game craftable weapon (if all of the Netherrealm options are viewed as one collection of choices).