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Hardmode

12 Apr @ 4:39am

Fraudulent Misrepresentation with Ines Raya -> Refunds

Regarding the topic of the Ines nerf and The First Descendant development team previously stating that they would not be nerfing descendants... I think this is grounds for players to seek damages and refunds from NEXON and The First Descendant.

Reasoning:
- Early in the life of the game, when Bunny and Gley were the targets of scorn by the try
hard 'balance your game' types, the developers publicly stated they would not be nerfing
descendants and instead would be buffing other descendants to match.

- The developers advertised Ines Raya prior to and during release as a great descendant
with great gameplay mechanics and specific functionalities.

- The in-game user interface specified what Ines Raya could do.

The three above bullets are called advertisements and descriptions. By making Ines Raya a buyable character, and furthermore, by integrating the descendant Ines Raya with a specific set of in-game functionality, the first descendant developers have essentially made it so that when they nerfed Ines Raya, they fundamentally degraded the product they advertised to customers. It's generally considered illegal for the seller to alter the product they sold someone after that person has already purchased it.

This is a huge problem, as the situation presents itself as a somehow even worse version of "Fraudulent Misrepresentation". It's the equivalent of going to a shoe store after seeing an advertisement, buying a great product with a small refund window, and then.. instead of the product just actively sucking... after your refund window has expired, the company comes to your house and swaps out your boots for a pair of flip flops.

If the developers didn't tie descendants to a specific set of skills and functionality, then this wouldn't be an issue, and they could balance their classes all they want. But in this case, they sold people not just a character design, but a discrete set of skills and capabilities. For them to then later degrade those skills and capabilities to the point where many of the people who paid for the character and associated content (costumes, cosmetics, inventory slots, etc) are no longer interested in playing the character, is a an act that I believe warrants either mass refunds or retracting the changes made.

I also believe this applies to any existing or future nerfs they might attempt on a character which they advertise, describe, and release for sale in exchange for people's real currency.

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Showing 1-15 of 202 comments

Zengu

12 Apr @ 4:59am

What nerfs? The damage is still exeptional. You can clear all content easy (if you understand the mechanics of the Void intercept battles). Arche Tunic made sure she still works more then fine.
The only thing you cant do is shoot at stuff you cant see wich was stupid to begin with.

Also every descendant you can buy in the store. If you dont have the patience to farm them its a you issue and not an issue from the developers.

Also they will adjust serena sonn. They also announced that but want more data before they do so. Thats the nature of online games. There is literally no online game that does not rebalance things.

WaggishBean13 has The First Descendant

12 Apr @ 5:04am

read the EULA, or a tldr here; https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/2074920/discussions/0/604152469261420462/

but by all means, email support and ask for a refund

Last edited by WaggishBean13; 12 Apr @ 5:08am

Hardmode

12 Apr @ 5:09am

Originally posted by Zengu:
What nerfs? The damage is still exeptional. You can clear all content easy (if you understand the mechanics of the Void intercept battles). Arche Tunic made sure she still works more then fine.
The only thing you cant do is shoot at stuff you cant see wich was stupid to begin with.

Also every descendant you can buy in the store. If you dont have the patience to farm them its a you issue and not an issue from the developers.

Also they will adjust serena sonn. They also announced that but want more data before they do so. Thats the nature of online games. There is literally no online game that does not rebalance things.

The nerfs are posted on TFD's website under updates in the article titled: "(Updated)The First Descendant Hotfix 1.2.13"

I understand your viewpoint, but in other games, whether it be final fantasy, black desert, etc., your character isn't tied to a set of class mechanics, you can just change classes if a rebalance nerfs the class your character is currently using.

In this case, the developers, by tying characters and classes together and by having descendants purchasable, have essentially made it so that for any player who already bought descendants, any nerf to any character is essential degrading their purchase after they have completed a transaction.

Again, this falls into the category of activity known as fraudulent misrepresentation.

Hardmode

12 Apr @ 5:11am

Originally posted by WaggishBean13:
read the EULA, or a tldr here; https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/2074920/discussions/0/604152469261420462/

but by all means, email support and ask for a refund

I have read the EULA I'm actively reaching out to NEXON and TFD for a full refund of all purchases I've made in game.

TFD's EULA specifically allows for them to change descriptions of items before completing a purchase order, not after.

WaggishBean13 has The First Descendant

12 Apr @ 5:12am

Originally posted by Hardmode:
Originally posted by WaggishBean13:
read the EULA, or a tldr here; https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/2074920/discussions/0/604152469261420462/

but by all means, email support and ask for a refund

I have read the EULA I'm actively reaching out to NEXON and TFD for a full refund of all purchases I've made in game.

TFD's EULA specifically allows for them to change descriptions of items before completing a purchase order, not after.

so then you know about this line right?

YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT NEXON WILL NOT OFFER REFUNDS FOR VIRTUAL CURRENCY OR DIGITAL, IN-GAME ITEMS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY IN THESE TERMS, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO THE ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF NEXON.

let us know what they say

Last edited by WaggishBean13; 12 Apr @ 5:15am

Hardmode

12 Apr @ 5:19am

Originally posted by WaggishBean13:
Originally posted by Hardmode:

I have read the EULA I'm actively reaching out to NEXON and TFD for a full refund of all purchases I've made in game.

TFD's EULA specifically allows for them to change descriptions of items before completing a purchase order, not after.
so then you know about this line right?
YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT NEXON WILL NOT OFFER REFUNDS FOR VIRTUAL CURRENCY OR DIGITAL, IN-GAME ITEMS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY IN THESE TERMS, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO THE ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF NEXON.

let us know what they say

Will do~

Geardo

12 Apr @ 7:07am

Slippery Slope

Hardmode

12 Apr @ 7:22am

Originally posted by Geardo:
Slippery Slope

Is it a bad thing to have a slippery slope where the bottom is consumers having security in the quality of their purchased products?

lucianaryas has The First Descendant

12 Apr @ 7:36am

would you be asking for a refund if she got buffed?

Morgul

12 Apr @ 7:44am

Can you provide a link with the developers statement that they will never nerf any descendant?
Everyone is talking about it, but ive never heard it from the developers, so I probably missed it. Thanks.

btw. You dont buy anything on steam. You dont own anything. You pay for a license to use something, which they can take away from you at any time. Sadly that how it works.

Last edited by Morgul; 12 Apr @ 7:51am

#10

Dacks

12 Apr @ 8:43am

2-13-2025

https://tfd.nexon.com/en/news/2731098

"Director’s Comment
Greetings, Descendants. This is the Director of The First Descendant, Minseok Joo.

As I mentioned on Discord and Dev Livestream, this hotfix focuses on improving the gameplay experience of Void Erosion Purge while addressing elements that may have caused discomfort.

However, the issue of certain weapon metas being overly required at higher difficulty levels has not yet been fully resolved. The reason we couldn't address this issue immediately is due to the performance gap between Descendants.

If we balance the difficulty based on top-tier Descendants, most other Descendants will struggle to play effectively. Conversely, if we adjust the difficulty to accommodate lower-performing Descendants, the leaderboard risks being dominated by only a selected few, diminishing the content’s value as a challenge.

To fundamentally resolve this issue, we plan to first adjust the balance between Descendants and then refine the gameplay experience of Void Erosion Purge. However, with the ongoing preparation for Season 2 Episode 2 and live service management, we regret that we cannot implement these improvements as quickly as possible. We sincerely apologize for this delay. We will share further details as soon as we finalize our improvement plans and schedule.

We deeply apologize to all players who may have been disappointed with the Void Erosion Purge content. To deliver better content, we will actively seek ways to engage with the community and gather feedback before updates, ensuring a more stable live service experience.

Thank you, as always, for your valuable feedback."

They have been talking about this for months now and they never said they wouldn't change the descendants people just convinced themselves that they did.

Last edited by Dacks; 12 Apr @ 8:46am

#11

Dreick Dragon has The First Descendant

12 Apr @ 9:15am

Originally posted by Dacks:
2-13-2025

https://tfd.nexon.com/en/news/2731098

"Director’s Comment
Greetings, Descendants. This is the Director of The First Descendant, Minseok Joo.

As I mentioned on Discord and Dev Livestream, this hotfix focuses on improving the gameplay experience of Void Erosion Purge while addressing elements that may have caused discomfort.

However, the issue of certain weapon metas being overly required at higher difficulty levels has not yet been fully resolved. The reason we couldn't address this issue immediately is due to the performance gap between Descendants.

If we balance the difficulty based on top-tier Descendants, most other Descendants will struggle to play effectively. Conversely, if we adjust the difficulty to accommodate lower-performing Descendants, the leaderboard risks being dominated by only a selected few, diminishing the content’s value as a challenge.

To fundamentally resolve this issue, we plan to first adjust the balance between Descendants and then refine the gameplay experience of Void Erosion Purge. However, with the ongoing preparation for Season 2 Episode 2 and live service management, we regret that we cannot implement these improvements as quickly as possible. We sincerely apologize for this delay. We will share further details as soon as we finalize our improvement plans and schedule.

We deeply apologize to all players who may have been disappointed with the Void Erosion Purge content. To deliver better content, we will actively seek ways to engage with the community and gather feedback before updates, ensuring a more stable live service experience.

Thank you, as always, for your valuable feedback."

They have been talking about this for months now and they never said they wouldn't change the descendants people just convinced themselves that they did.

This is the point where I lost hope in the Devs...

"The leaderboard risks being dominated by only a selected few, diminishing the content’s value as a challenge."
This is simply STUPID and SHORTSIGHTED.

Of course some Descendants are going to be better at specific roles than others!

Ines was perfect for Mobing, but terrible for VEP and Colossus.
Hayley is great for Colossus and VEP, but bad at Mobing.
Enzo, Yujin, and Luna are Support characters, and they truly shine in team content like VEP and Colossus.

Honestly, my fastest VEP run was thanks to an Enzo in the team.
That’s how the game SHOULD work, not every character is meant to do everything.

Trying to force AoE-focused Descendants to perform in Boss fights makes no sense.
That’s not their intended role.

“There are many Descendants that are unused and forgotten! That’s why everything needs to be balanced!”

No! That’s the wrong approach!

Just buff the underused ones!
See? It's not that hard:

Jayber — Give his turrets longer range and Their bullets should ricochet like the Albion Cavalry.
Blair — Enemies killed by his skills should explode or ignite others around them, and he could get movement speed buffs based on how many enemies are burning.
Esiemo — He’s the only Descendant who can reach 1600 movement speed! Just make his explosions spawn mini-bombs that chase enemies while he runs, or cause chain reactions as he dashes.

There are countless creative ways to improve these characters and make them viable.

Nobody would complain if Blair suddenly became a top-tier Mober after a rework (well, maybe those who don’t like playing male characters, but that’s a whole different discussion 😅).

“Making Descendants too strong will cause problems in future content! New players won’t be able to clear it!”

First: People forget that in order for a Descendant to become strong, it requires a serious investment

Catalysts
A proper build
A perfect Reactor setup

It’s not something easy or fast for most players to achieve.

Second: YES, and they absolutely shouldn’t be able to!
You need to invest in a solid build if you want to take on harder content.
That’s exactly how it should work, plain and simple.

Last edited by Dreick Dragon; 12 Apr @ 9:17am

#12

lucianaryas has The First Descendant

12 Apr @ 10:04am

Originally posted by Dreick Dragon:
Originally posted by Dacks:
2-13-2025

https://tfd.nexon.com/en/news/2731098

"Director’s Comment
Greetings, Descendants. This is the Director of The First Descendant, Minseok Joo.

As I mentioned on Discord and Dev Livestream, this hotfix focuses on improving the gameplay experience of Void Erosion Purge while addressing elements that may have caused discomfort.

However, the issue of certain weapon metas being overly required at higher difficulty levels has not yet been fully resolved. The reason we couldn't address this issue immediately is due to the performance gap between Descendants.

If we balance the difficulty based on top-tier Descendants, most other Descendants will struggle to play effectively. Conversely, if we adjust the difficulty to accommodate lower-performing Descendants, the leaderboard risks being dominated by only a selected few, diminishing the content’s value as a challenge.

To fundamentally resolve this issue, we plan to first adjust the balance between Descendants and then refine the gameplay experience of Void Erosion Purge. However, with the ongoing preparation for Season 2 Episode 2 and live service management, we regret that we cannot implement these improvements as quickly as possible. We sincerely apologize for this delay. We will share further details as soon as we finalize our improvement plans and schedule.

We deeply apologize to all players who may have been disappointed with the Void Erosion Purge content. To deliver better content, we will actively seek ways to engage with the community and gather feedback before updates, ensuring a more stable live service experience.

Thank you, as always, for your valuable feedback."

They have been talking about this for months now and they never said they wouldn't change the descendants people just convinced themselves that they did.
This is the point where I lost hope in the Devs...

"The leaderboard risks being dominated by only a selected few, diminishing the content’s value as a challenge."
This is simply STUPID and SHORTSIGHTED.

Of course some Descendants are going to be better at specific roles than others!
Ines was perfect for Mobing, but terrible for VEP and Colossus.
Hayley is great for Colossus and VEP, but bad at Mobing.
Enzo, Yujin, and Luna are Support characters, and they truly shine in team content like VEP and Colossus.

Honestly, my fastest VEP run was thanks to an Enzo in the team.
That’s how the game SHOULD work, not every character is meant to do everything.

Trying to force AoE-focused Descendants to perform in Boss fights makes no sense.
That’s not their intended role.

“There are many Descendants that are unused and forgotten! That’s why everything needs to be balanced!”
No! That’s the wrong approach!

Just buff the underused ones!
See? It's not that hard:

Jayber — Give his turrets longer range and Their bullets should ricochet like the Albion Cavalry.
Blair — Enemies killed by his skills should explode or ignite others around them, and he could get movement speed buffs based on how many enemies are burning.
Esiemo — He’s the only Descendant who can reach 1600 movement speed! Just make his explosions spawn mini-bombs that chase enemies while he runs, or cause chain reactions as he dashes.

There are countless creative ways to improve these characters and make them viable.

Nobody would complain if Blair suddenly became a top-tier Mober after a rework (well, maybe those who don’t like playing male characters, but that’s a whole different discussion 😅).

“Making Descendants too strong will cause problems in future content! New players won’t be able to clear it!”

First: People forget that in order for a Descendant to become strong, it requires a serious investment
Catalysts
A proper build
A perfect Reactor setup
It’s not something easy or fast for most players to achieve.

Second: YES, and they absolutely shouldn’t be able to!
You need to invest in a solid build if you want to take on harder content.
That’s exactly how it should work, plain and simple.

asinine response.

overperforming descendants should be balanced down just as much as underperforming descendants should be balanced up

only taking everything up makes content a joke.

#13

Lammeth

12 Apr @ 10:09am

I really hope they give you the refund you are asking for so we can be rid of you and the likes of you of this game forever... Really rooting for you here..

The fact that you are whining for a nerf that barely scratched the power of Ines is simply RIDICULOUS. She can outperform all decendents in a way that makes the game unplayable for anyone trying to have any fun in co-op.

I would though, accept that they could leave her as-is and even rollback the nerf IF they give us the power to ban descendants from our match makings, which means I could potentially never play with an Ines if I wanted to... I would gladly ban Ines forever and never ever change that setting back... and would give it a thought to Freya as well, depending on the content.

Last edited by Lammeth; 12 Apr @ 10:17am

#14