Honestly, I'd say the recoil is pretty good as it is now, maybe a few tweaks here and there, but I don't think 'patterns' are necessary either.

I can't entirely agree with that. Before the parity patch all weapons felt "unique" and adjusting them to your liking had way more impact, no matter which parts you were changing.
Hower now it doesnt matter whether I'm using a AR, HAR, AK, SMG, LMG or BPFA, it all feels like I'm running around with a TSMG with different fire rate and running speed.
I don't know on which servers you were playing but I've seen LMGs and LMG Recons all the time, the high spread and recoil was the reason why I also like them so much.
It doesn't feel right when a default AR can snipe you easily with a 2.0 scope from the other end of the map, every weapon should have its pros and cons and that's what patterns are for.
I'm curious how HS labs will adress this issue.

and what you are saying about " you see a HAR its full precision you see a M4X its full damage" is wrong

me included a lot of peoples dont played those like that , my M4X is not full damages and was deadly because it fitted perfectly how i played same with my AR / my smg / my AK / my LMG they all felt unique now as snipehunter said earlier all weapons feels the same .....

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

I saw patterns mentioned in the patch notes. Please don't bring those back, outside of a rudimentary "this weapon pulls more to the left" or "this weapon pulls more toward the right." Before Parity when exaggerated patterns were a thing, several trends were evident:

1. Weapons with simple or inconsequential patterns and recoil were beyond widespread. ARs, AKs and Bullpups were EVERYWHERE.

No, everyone pretty much used whatever fit their playstyle.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

2. Weapons with unforgivingly high initial recoil were hardly touched. I saw maybe 1 LMG or CR in more than thirty matches.

Many people used LMG/LMGR, myself included. CR could use an improvement though.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

3. Weapons with high recoil but not erratic enough to be set aside or shown up by something else were inevitably modded to kill before recoil actually factored into the equation much. If you saw a HAR, it was max accuracy. If you saw an M4X, it was max damage.

How is it any better now? Mostly everything is max damage now.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

Patterns were initially implemented to fix vertical recoil providing easy, low-risk headshots and promote skillful play centered on muscle memory... but all they did was cause people to find ways to circumvent them.

That's the point of customizing to fit your playstyle. Now there's no sense of uniqueness about anything.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

By all means, kick recoil up a notch. Continue to adjust it until it feels like the relevant guns have an appropriate kick. Factor in stronger horizontal recoil so that weapons don't just float straight up. Just don't re-implement silly fixed patterns that are essentially annoyance features.

How exactly were fixed patterns an annoyance feature? Because skilled players could use it to their advantage?

yep new BLR players do not like skill ....

To all the people saying "you're wrong about this or that, insert anecdote here," I'm writing from MY experiences with playing the game before the parity patch. I also can't seem to find where I mentioned the LMG-R, but unless they were all on the EU servers or something, LMGs were practically extinct. Sure, maybe you used them. Sure, maybe you saw them. But I didn't.

As for the whole "builds were different," thing... sure. Again, I'm talking about trends, not absolutes. Yes, I saw some varied builds. Hell, I used middle-of-the-road builds myself, but the vast majority of the builds I saw fell into the categories I mentioned. I'll replace a few pronouns in the OP if that helps.

Originally posted by ℛaveDZ:

How exactly were fixed patterns an annoyance feature? Because skilled players could use it to their advantage?

No, because skilled players didn't use them. The only weapons I saw fired full-auto for extended periods with any regularity were weapons even I could fire without knowing the patterns. Anything with a significant pattern was typically fired in bursts short enough that the pattern didn't matter.

Originally posted by Snipehunter:

I can't entirely agree with that. Before the parity patch all weapons felt "unique" and adjusting them to your liking had way more impact, no matter which parts you were changing.
Hower now it doesnt matter whether I'm using a AR, HAR, AK, SMG, LMG or BPFA, it all feels like I'm running around with a TSMG with different fire rate and running speed.
I don't know on which servers you were playing but I've seen LMGs and LMG Recons all the time, the high spread and recoil was the reason why I also like them so much.
It doesn't feel right when a default AR can snipe you easily with a 2.0 scope from the other end of the map, every weapon should have its pros and cons and that's what patterns are for.
I'm curious how HS labs will adress this issue.

Then you and I had opposite experiences with weapons.

AR, AK, SMG, BPFA, M4... all these felt pretty much the same to me. The only glaring differences were in their effective range and TTK.

BFR and BSMG felt pretty much the same.

HAR, LMG-R, and LMG felt mostly the same.

BAR, AMR, and CR felt mostly the same.

TSMG was kinda in a class of its own.

I agree that people sniping across maps with ARs is wrong and shouldn't be happening, especially against actual snipers. However, recoil "patterns" aren't the only solution to that problem.

I can't disagree that customization had more of an impact pre-parity, but that was largely in part because weapons had more differentiated stats. Right now it feels like some of the recoil values shown in the UI are flat-out wrong; there is no way my CR is kicking 7 degrees.

Finally, not in direct-reply to your post but something I forgot to mention:

It should be telling that hipfire builds were so ubiquitous prior to the parity patch. Not everybody used them, but people with maximum movement speed who hipfired almost exclusively were consistently at the tops of the scoreboards.

Why? Because once they got their hipfire spread down enough that they could hit consistently they didn't need to worry about recoil while also being more difficult to hit using ADS. I haven't actually run into any lobbies full of speedbuilds since the patch, but maybe that will change.

The current recoil system and spread is garbage and makes the game feel like a COD clone, if you cant handle spread patterns go play something else and let people who actualy like to use skill and burst fire like a intelligent person play a good game, go back to your COD garbage if you dont want spread patterns. Idea's like this is what ruined this game and caused it to become casualised

Originally posted by kandayu1990:

The current recoil system and spread is garbage and makes the game feel like a COD clone, if you cant handle spread patterns go play something else and let people who actualy like to use skill and burst fire like a intelligent person play a good game, go back to your COD garbage if you dont want spread patterns. Idea's like this is what ruined this game and caused it to become casualised

Spare me your elitism. I agree that the current recoil VALUES could use some tweaks, and spread definitely shouldn't stay exactly the same, but you should have noticed that I'm not defending the current state of the game.

I hear a lot about "using skill," but from what I've seen recoil patterns don't really encourage most players to learn them, and instead cause them to create builds and playstyles that ignore them entirely: relying on weapons with insignificant patterns and hipfire builds instead of using ADS and committing individual weapon patterns to muscle-memory.

I don't see how you can rightfully say that the game has been "casualized" when it never had a huge competitive scene to begin with, and primarily consisted of pubstomping even when recoil patterns were a thing.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

No, because skilled players didn't use them. The only weapons I saw fired full-auto for extended periods with any regularity were weapons even I could fire without knowing the patterns. Anything with a significant pattern was typically fired in bursts short enough that the pattern didn't matter.

So... You're saying recoil patterns don't matter and even you could control it? What's the problem then?

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

Why? Because once they got their hipfire spread down enough that they could hit consistently they didn't need to worry about recoil while also being more difficult to hit using ADS. I haven't actually run into any lobbies full of speedbuilds since the patch, but maybe that will change.

That's just a certain playstyle some people choose to use. If they're top of the scoreboards that's because they're good. If they're using speedbuilds that means they move faster and can get around the map faster, so they'll probably get more kills than someone useing a tank build that sits in a corner the whole match sniping. Recoil patterns have nothing to do with it and even if they were removed the only way to stop that from happening would be to make everyone have the exact same movement speed and armor values. But, that'd just be boring.

Originally posted by ℛaveDZ:

So... You're saying recoil patterns don't matter and even you could control it? What's the problem then?

No, I'm saying that most people I played with didn't bother using any of the weapons that required any practice to control.

Originally posted by ℛaveDZ:

That's just a certain playstyle some people choose to use. If they're top of the scoreboards that's because they're good. If they're using speedbuilds that means they move faster and can get around the map faster, so they'll probably get more kills than someone useing a tank build that sits in a corner the whole match sniping. Recoil patterns have nothing to do with it and even if they were removed the only way to stop that from happening would be to make everyone have the exact same movement speed and armor values. But, that'd just be boring.

Yes, it's just a certain playstyle that most people chose to use, because it synergizes best with weapons that are built for high hipfire accuracy... which was barely, if at all, affected by recoil patterns. What seemed like 75 or 80% of the players in lobbies pre-parity were speedbuilds bunnyhopping with hipfire guns.

Recoil patterns have at least something to do with it, because shortly after parity went live the dominant armor build became HP tanks once again. As soon as hipfire wasn't significantly more convenient, a lot of people went back to using ADS. Recoil patterns have already been removed, and full lobbies of speedsters are already mostly gone.

I don't want insignificant recoil. I don't want a COD clone full of lasers. I also don't want each receiver to have some needlessly contrived jumble of recoil swerves that don't actually facilitate "skillful" play and turn the game into a Halo clone instead.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

Yes, it's just a certain playstyle that most people chose to use, because it synergizes best with weapons that are built for high hipfire accuracy... which was barely, if at all, affected by recoil patterns. What seemed like 75 or 80% of the players in lobbies pre-parity were speedbuilds bunnyhopping with hipfire guns.

If they're bunnyhopping then what are you doing? Just shoot them. You make it sound like you're lamb to the slaughter or something. So long as you know how to aim and shoot you can counter speed builds. If they're always beating you it's because they are better than you and probably would have beaten you even if they were moving slower.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

Recoil patterns have at least something to do with it, because shortly after parity went live the dominant armor build became HP tanks once again. As soon as hipfire wasn't significantly more convenient, a lot of people went back to using ADS. Recoil patterns have already been removed, and full lobbies of speedsters are already mostly gone.

Not sure what game you've been playing, but atm everyone in this game is a "speedster".

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

I don't want insignificant recoil. I don't want a COD clone full of lasers. I also don't want each receiver to have some needlessly contrived jumble of recoil swerves that don't actually facilitate "skillful" play and turn the game into a Halo clone instead.

Sounds like you don't want anything. Just quit then because apparantly shooters are not for you.

Originally posted by ℛaveDZ:

*snip*

Wow, can you cram any more misinterpretation, condescension, and offhand dismissal into that response?

1. No, I'm not complaining about my personal performance against said builds. Just how prolific they were, and the sort of experience they created in the game. I never said anything about how difficult they were to kill. They're just annoying to play with.

2. Really? Because most of the people I've been running into have 226+ HP builds unless they're in the default armor. Sure, the <200 builds are out there, but they're not nearly as common as they used to be.

3. Sounds like you're generalizing because it's convenient, and you're starting to realize that this is an "I want this,"
"Well, I want this," argument, and that maybe your position is not nearly as righteous and rock-solid as you thought it was. (Oh, who am I kidding...?)

I've already made it clear what I want: Respectable recoil, tweaked spread, and an absence of exaggerated recoil patterns.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

1. No, I'm not complaining about my personal performance against said builds. Just how prolific they were, and the sort of experience they created in the game. I never said anything about how difficult they were to kill. They're just annoying to play with.

Ah I get it! You want everyone to stand still so you can hit them, right? Yeah man, moving targets are so damn annoying.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

2. Really? Because most of the people I've been running into have 226+ HP builds unless they're in the default armor. Sure, the <200 builds are out there, but they're not nearly as common as they used to be.

Whoa... You can see the exact stat numbers even though half of everyone is using White Knight hero skin? Is that some kind of new hack?

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

3. Sounds like you're generalizing because it's convenient, and you're starting to realize that this is an "I want this,"
"Well, I want this," argument, and that maybe your position is not nearly as righteous and rock-solid as you thought it was. (Oh, who am I kidding...?)

I was thinking more along the lines of 'the hell is this scrub talking about?" tbh.

Originally posted by Diabolus Ursus:

I've already made it clear what I want: Respectable recoil, tweaked spread, and an absence of exaggerated recoil patterns.

I already found the recoil patterns to be respectable and they fit nicely with the customization of the game. It's true certain guns need a tweak here and there, but it's not really necessary to change how the recoil patterns work for everything. You're the one exaggerating about how exaggerated the recoil patterns are.

Rave I hope you are talking pre parity recoil patterns not current ones just saying

Originally posted by ℛaveDZ:

*snip*

It's called the HP stat the game shows you when you get killed by someone, in addition to basic armor recognition. HP values are not some massively variable thing.

I'll bother to put actual effort into responding to what you have to say the next time you actually say something worthwhile.