Going upstairs or downstairs is typically little more than a transition from one 2d map to another 2d map.

Now if we could have our characters climb walls or fly - both of which are options in the original rule set - you might have a better claim.

Originally posted by Sstavix:

Going upstairs or downstairs is typically little more than a transition from one 2d map to another 2d map.

Now if we could have our characters climb walls or fly - both of which are options in the original rule set - you might have a better claim. :rose:

Solasta has both of those things!!

Demonstrate how to go up and down in the game without transitioning to a new map. Failure to do so means your premises are wrong.

Originally posted by Amardarial:

Originally posted by Sstavix:

Going upstairs or downstairs is typically little more than a transition from one 2d map to another 2d map.

Now if we could have our characters climb walls or fly - both of which are options in the original rule set - you might have a better claim.

Solasta has both of those things!!

I'm going to have to check that out. Thanks!

By rotating, twisting, angled and create perspective, the 2D graphics and animation with both the background and the props, you can trick the eye into thinking that the world is in 3D (that the world has a Z and not just X and Y), which you can go up, down, forward, backward, and right and left... And if you add a little programming and effects, you can deepen the result...

...to make this a little more exciting and more complex... I'm not trying to convince you that BG1 is a 3D game in its entirety, but to convince you that it is possible to create 2D graphics that trick the eye as if you are in a 3D world. Since i don't know if BG1 contains depth like Z and 3D props in itself, it is difficult for me to say whether the game "really" should be 3D or 2.5D. But if it says that the game is a 2D Isometric game, then everything should be flat as a pancake... ;D

Solasta 2 is out soon. Take a look !

Originally posted by Jx:

Solasta 2 is out soon. Take a look !

very hype for this!

I have enjoyed Solasta 1. The ability to use spider climb and fly spells is great. It definitely adds to your tactical strategy.

Originally posted by Marq:

By rotating, twisting, angled and create perspective, the 2D graphics and animation with both the background and the props, you can trick the eye into thinking that the world is in 3D (that the world has a Z and not just X and Y), which you can go up, down, forward, backward, and right and left... And if you add a little programming and effects, you can deepen the result...

...to make this a little more exciting and more complex... I'm not trying to convince you that BG1 is a 3D game in its entirety, but to convince you that it is possible to create 2D graphics that trick the eye as if you are in a 3D world. Since i don't know if BG1 contains depth like Z and 3D props in itself, it is difficult for me to say whether the game "really" should be 3D or 2.5D. But if it says that the game is a 2D Isometric game, then everything should be flat as a pancake... ;D

That's the thing though, this was classified as a 3d isometric game up until 1994 when the first REAL 3d games came out (Wolfenstein/Doom). 2d games were things like pac man and donkey kong, as the world was flat, this was considered 3d BUT THEN AFTER it was reclassified to 2d.

Lol wut, BG came out way after Doom. Still, it is 3D, cuz you can go up and down stairs on the same screen, for instance the Docks. Add time and arcane arts, bam, 5D.

Originally posted by -=LCS=- teh_real_BANE:

Lol wut, BG came out way after Doom. Still, it is 3D, cuz you can go up and down stairs on the same screen, for instance the Docks. Add time and arcane arts, bam, 5D.

Yeah I know it came out in 1998 around 4 years later. That's the point, up until 1994, isometric games like BG would've officially been considered "3d" because the side scrollers were the "2d" ones and the isometrics the "3d" ones. Then the FPS was born and all of a sudden isometric games became "2d". wut?

But yeah I know the thinking behind it is this; In the character's perspective in-game it is 3d: he/she/it/broccoli can go up, down, forward, backward etc. But to us, it is 2d since the char. can only scroll sideways and up/down...but not in/out

So yeah BG unfortunately is not "true" 3d but "fake" 3d. That's what isometric is, it's an old-skool way into tricking you into thinking it's a 3d world. It's an illusion in other words. But in the world where our chars live, it's 3d and that's all that counts. Poor Imoen, imagine trying to explain to her she lives in a 2d world.

Nuh-uh stupid, it's a 4d game at least because for it has pocket dimensions!

loser~ loser~ loser~

Except there is places where you can go upstairs without a zone shift so it is infact 3d. Or perhaps 2.5d as some like to call some games.

Originally posted by itsu:

Originally posted by -=LCS=- teh_real_BANE:

Lol wut, BG came out way after Doom. Still, it is 3D, cuz you can go up and down stairs on the same screen, for instance the Docks. Add time and arcane arts, bam, 5D.

Yeah I know it came out in 1998 around 4 years later. That's the point, up until 1994, isometric games like BG would've officially been considered "3d" because the side scrollers were the "2d" ones and the isometrics the "3d" ones. Then the FPS was born and all of a sudden isometric games became "2d". wut?

But yeah I know the thinking behind it is this; In the character's perspective in-game it is 3d: he/she/it/broccoli can go up, down, forward, backward etc. But to us, it is 2d since the char. can only scroll sideways and up/down...but not in/out

So yeah BG unfortunately is not "true" 3d but "fake" 3d. That's what isometric is, it's an old-skool way into tricking you into thinking it's a 3d world. It's an illusion in other words. But in the world where our chars live, it's 3d and that's all that counts. Poor Imoen, imagine trying to explain to her she lives in a 2d world.

Heck, if we are talking about the perspectives of the characters, then games like Space Invaders, Pac-Man and the original Donkey Kong would also be 3d.

Originally posted by Nonotorious:

Except there is places where you can go upstairs without a zone shift so it is infact 3d. Or perhaps 2.5d as some like to call some games.

You're missing the point. Games are classified according to OUR perspective, not the in game characters perspective. So THE SCREEN scrolls :up/down, left/right =2 dimensions. In an FPS the SCREEN scrolls up/down, left/right, in/out (forward/backward) = 3 dimensions.

It USED TO BE like you said, but then we got 3d graphics...and the rest is history.