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Bassgasm 11 Nov, 2024 @ 2:12pm
Rifles vs. Grens a comparison
Recently I have felt that for their price rifles are pretty bad against grens. I have mostly played ostheer myself and now playing as an ally Grens generally seem to be pretty strong. Stronger than I have noticed them as when I played them myself. I once was beaten by an ostheer player who only played grens and no mg42 against my rifles. After some research I now maybe know why.

I experimented a bit with the CheatCommand Mod 2 and tested them against each other on Faymonville Approach where they got those 2 sandbags opposed to each other at that muni point.

Because if the rifles don't close in, then the grens win because of their higher accuracy. I first tested only rifles coming closer:

Grens without cover vs Rifles closing in: draw, resource wise the grens still win

Grens in heavy cover vs Rifles closing in until they reach mid range their own heavy cover: grens win

Grens in heavy cover vs Rifles closing in until they reach grens cover: grens win

Grens in heavy cover with lmg vs Rifles with one Bar closing in until they reach Grens cover: Rifles barely win with 2 models - did not thought that

Grens in heavy cover with lmg vs Rifles with Bar closing mid range in to their own heavy cover: Rifles barely win with 1 model

Grens in heavy cover with Bar vs Rifles with lmg closing in until they reach the grens cover: Grens easily win with 2 models left

I tried this tests mostly without veterancy and a few times with both having vet 3. If they had equal veterancy then the results did not change. I did let them close in on an open field, so the grens usually were able to drop one model of the usf squat before they closed the distance.

This left me with the impression, that Grens are generally stronger than Rifles until they get one Bar. But then I tried the opposite scenario a bit.

Rifles in heavy cover vs grens engaging on max range without cover: easy Rifle win

Rifles in heavy cover vs grens engaging on max range with light cover: still rifle win

Rifles in heavy cover vs grens engaging until they reach mid range heavy cover: still rifle win

So from this it can be said that: That the time until cover is quite important. Which probably also is good argument for why the soviet urrrraahh!! is so strong.

After letting the grens attack, I know think of them as more evenly matched in the early game than before. Even doe the grens still seem to have a slight early game advantage.

Speaking of myself, I probably have underestimated my usf infantry need for cover. As I foolishly thought closing in would always be enough to win.

What are your early game strats against ostheer as usf?
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Showing 1-2 of 2 comments
(FLAH) Ken 10 Jan @ 6:53pm 
Have you noticed the difference between Higher Ranks getting wiped from a Gren Grenade?

Try this for me.

Rifle No Rank against Grenadier Grenade
Rifle Max Rank against Grenadier Grenade

The only difference I see most of the time is that you have to keep the enemy occupied looking at something else so you can sneak a grenade throw on the high level ranks.
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HazardousMoose 29 Jan @ 8:55am 
CoH2 is all about combined arms: Using different units together, such that their respective strengths or abilities create a more powerful ensemble, than each unit on their own.

So comparing mainline infantry directly is a somewhat useful, but also doesn't tell the full story. One of the main strengths of USF rifle play, is that it synergises very well with the grenade package. This does not just unlock frag grenades, but also smoke on rear echelons and the officiers. This can allow riflemen to close in without taking damage and the frags are useful to threaten team weapons and infantry bunched up in cover. Early weapon racks is less useful, because both the tech and the individual weapons are rather expensive, since you can put two BARs on a single squad, topping out at 120 muni per squad opposed to 60 for grens.
Also, riflemen match up very nicely vs pioneers, making said pioneer only really useful together with an mg to spot and dmg suppressed units. So a wehrmacht that skips the MG will struggle to make use of the pioneer in combat, so they are usually just sent around the map to cap. But that leaves you down one unit, which can make all the difference in early fights. And the grenades can easily swing fights too.
Grenadiers really shine in the midgame vs USF, when they have vet2 accuracy bonus and upgraded weapons (mg42 or G43). But due to the double bar possibility, riflemen will win out again in the lategame.
So as with most things in CoH2, it's about understanding the place of a unit in a factions overall army and understanding its powerspikes over the duration of the match and how they match up against enemy powerspikes.
And when looked at holistically, I think grens and rifles are well balanced.
#2
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Company of Heroes 2 > Multiplayer Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: 11 Nov, 2024 @ 2:12pm
Posts: 2

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