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tac0 27 Dec, 2018 @ 7:13pm
Sector 9 - Embers
I'm having difficulty with this level and am on the verge of refunding the game out of frustration.

There are 3 (maybe more?) jumps that I can't get by, part because I'm brand new to the game/genre, but partially because I don't actually know what I'm supposed to do. The track is almost completely dark and I can't tell if I'm supposed to flip the car upside down or do some kind of a jump I'm unfamiliar with.

The Checkpoint on Embers I'm stuck on starts where you have to do a boost jump and land sideways using Left Stick onto the road. Then you continue a slow incline for maybe 10s in total darkness and do a blind jump onto another road. You drive flat for 2-3 seconds and then you have to do ??? something to land ???? some, where? It looks like it's to the left but I can't tell for sure. If you fail (which I have many many times) you're sent back to the first complicated jump and have to start all over again.

I'm at 116minutes of playtime and about a full hour has been just trying to get past this one section. All of the other game modes are Locked until I complete this, so if there's a secondary Tutorial I haven't unlocked it yet?

I loved the game up until this point, but the lack of light and explanations on screen for what I'm supposed to do here are really frustrating. I've read the game requires high skill, but shouldn't there be a tutorial or something where I can practice? Or, the first time I have to do some new jump shouldn't there be light on the track and instructions so I know what to do? I have no idea where this track is going or where I'm supposed to land. It's all dark.

If I'm not enjoying this part, should I just refund the game and move on?

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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Californ1a 27 Dec, 2018 @ 7:22pm 
First, turn your gamma up some in the graphics options. The game tells you to set it lower than it should be (it leans more toward atmospheric experience rather than visibility). None of the jumps are blind if the gamma isn't set too dark.

It does require high skill, but this is the tutorial - it's very difficult because you don't know the mechanic yet, it takes practice. This video may help with knowing what you're supposed to do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUCZl0q5TmU
Last edited by Californ1a; 27 Dec, 2018 @ 7:23pm
kalirion 4 Jan, 2020 @ 4:52pm 
Had a lot of trouble in this one too. Turning on the gamma helped a lot, as did finding out from the video that the downward jets (LB) were enabled now. They were disabled at the start of campaign and I didn't notice a single tutorial prompt about them! Thanks!

Edit: The LB prompt hint only came 2 levels later...
Last edited by kalirion; 4 Jan, 2020 @ 5:02pm
Californ1a 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:23am 
Originally posted by kalirion:
Had a lot of trouble in this one too. Turning on the gamma helped a lot, as did finding out from the video that the downward jets (LB) were enabled now. They were disabled at the start of campaign and I didn't notice a single tutorial prompt about them! Thanks!

Edit: The LB prompt hint only came 2 levels later...
Yeah, it doesn't introduce grip until later so that you get some time to learn how to use the individual jets first. Grip is built into my muscle memory at this point which is why it's in the video, but Embers works just fine without grip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=111Lvf7mAgs
It just comes down to learning the proper timings for jump and roll as well as making sure you roll the correct direction depending on the type of transfer.
Last edited by Californ1a; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:26am
Qon 5 Jan, 2020 @ 8:41am 
Originally posted by Californ1a:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUCZl0q5TmU
This tutorial makes it seem like I'm supposed to fly without my wings from 2:00 to 2:08, immediatly after telling me the keys for rotating the car and that I can use boosters in air. That might actually be possible, but it's not really fair to ask someone who barely knows the keys to perform an advanced maneuver that I'm not sure experenced players would be able to do.

I tried to do the flip but I just crash into the other road or don't flip around fast enough and drop down, which reinforced the idea that I was supposed to fly without wings. And they game is so dark that I can't see and verify that the road I'm supposed to jump onto is actually a road.

I'm all for skill, I like hard games. I was going to just refund this because I'm not going to play an awful game with an maybe impossible tutorial that might require 10 hours of practise to verify if it is feasible to complete it! It was suddenly thousands of times harder than any obstacle before. I mean you shouldn't have to learn speedrunner WR strats just to complete your first jump in the tutorial -.-

But I found this thread, which saved the game. I enjoyed it until that point. I kind of enjoyed learning to fly without wings too, but I don't want to be stuck at that point before I get to even know all the controls.

And what is "grip"?
Californ1a 5 Jan, 2020 @ 9:32am 
Originally posted by Qon:
This tutorial makes it seem like I'm supposed to fly without my wings from 2:00 to 2:08, immediatly after telling me the keys for rotating the car and that I can use boosters in air. That might actually be possible, but it's not really fair to ask someone who barely knows the keys to perform an advanced maneuver that I'm not sure experenced players would be able to do.
It's not really meant to be a tutorial video, just a video I had laying around where I played through Embers. The transfer at 2:03-2:08 is from the ceiling onto the ground, you don't need to fly or grip; gravity will just pull you down onto the floor. The only reason I grip there is like I said above, muscle memory to get back onto a surface as soon as possible (since boosting with wheels on the ground is faster than boosting in-air). You don't need to grip there at all, as shown in the second video I linked.

The transfer at 2:00-2:03 I don't use grip at all in either video - you just have to time your jump and roll properly because the roads are tight together. Set the playback speed to 0.25 and watch the input display - I never hit A+D (my grip bind). Even if you're not on keyboard, you can use the input display to see what the proper timings are for jump and roll. A and D are roll, spacebar is jump.

Originally posted by Qon:
I tried to do the flip but I just crash into the other road or don't flip around fast enough and drop down, which reinforced the idea that I was supposed to fly without wings. And they game is so dark that I can't see and verify that the road I'm supposed to jump onto is actually a road.
Assuming you're talking about the tight transfer at 2:00-2:03, not the one right afterward - If you jump too late or start rolling late then you'll hit the roof of your car against the opposite road. If you don't jump or start rolling too early then you'll miss the other road entirely and just fall down off the wall. And if you jump too early, then you'll faceplant into the front of the opposite road (it's pretty hard to jump too early, most people jump far too late).

Originally posted by Qon:
I'm all for skill, I like hard games. I was going to just refund this because I'm not going to play an awful game with an maybe impossible tutorial that might require 10 hours of practise to verify if it is feasible to complete it! It was suddenly thousands of times harder than any obstacle before. I mean you shouldn't have to learn speedrunner WR strats just to complete your first jump in the tutorial -.-

But I found this thread, which saved the game. I enjoyed it until that point. I kind of enjoyed learning to fly without wings too, but I don't want to be stuck at that point before I get to even know all the controls.
Nothing required to get through the Adventure campaign is anything close to speedrun strats. Yes it's a hard game, it's not supposed to be easy, but it's not that hard, at least when talking about the first campaign. It ramps up moreso later with the second campaign and the Nightmare Fuel level set in arcade sprint mode (as well as quite a few workshop maps).

Originally posted by Qon:
And what is "grip"?
When you use all 4 jets to push you down, the name of the binding is grip.
Last edited by Californ1a; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 9:34am
Qon 5 Jan, 2020 @ 9:44am 
Originally posted by Californ1a:
It's not really meant to be a tutorial video, just a video I had laying around where I played through Embers.
"Embers" is the tutorial, not your video. The timecodes and quote was just to show what section of the tutorial I was talking about.
Californ1a 5 Jan, 2020 @ 9:52am 
Originally posted by Qon:
"Embers" is the tutorial, not your video. The timecodes and quote was just to show what section of the tutorial I was talking about.
Sorry for the misunderstanding then; when you said "this tutorial" right after quoting the video, I assumed you were talking about the video. Regardless, you don't need to fly or grip in that section. You just have to time your jump and roll properly. I definitely recommend watching either of the videos in slowmo so you can see the input timings more clearly.
Last edited by Californ1a; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 9:54am
kalirion 5 Jan, 2020 @ 11:15am 
The Jumps at 1:40 and 1:42 look like the oness where I simply kept missing the road but now I'm no longer sure. Just ran the level in Arcade and got a Silver after a couple attempts without using Grip. I guess experience was what was needed.

Also, how do you enable the cell-shaded graphics style?

Another question, not related to ember - is there a way to rotate during flight? For example if I'm flying and want to land on a road that's above me? I do notice that there are a bunch of controls that are unbound in for a 360 controller - would one of them help if bound to right analog stick for example? Using it for "looking" is pointless anyway.
Last edited by kalirion; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 11:54am
Californ1a 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:12pm 
Originally posted by kalirion:
The Jumps at 1:40 and 1:42 look like the oness where I simply kept missing the road but now I'm no longer sure. Just ran the level in Arcade and got a Silver after a couple attempts without using Grip. I guess experience was what was needed.
Yeah, that's been my experience with new players on Embers - any map where you're first introduced to the rotation jets is going to be a sticking point just because it is a bit of a difficulty spike and learning curve at the same time regardless of which map you first learn jets on; Embers just gets called out because it is most people's first experience with jets, which take some time to get used to. Once you get through it once, then re-plays of that intro map are much easier than before you learned jets.

Originally posted by kalirion:
Also, how do you enable the cell-shaded graphics style?
Stylized outlines in Options>Cheats. Unlocked from the Cheat the System achievement.

Originally posted by kalirion:
Another question, not related to ember - is there a way to rotate during flight? For example if I'm flying and want to land on a road that's above me? I do notice that there are a bunch of controls that are unbound in for a 360 controller - would one of them help if bound to right analog stick for example? Using it for "looking" is pointless anyway.
With the default controller controls, hold grip (LB) and use left stick to roll while you have wings out. If you prefer, you can unbind the camera controls from right stick (hit Edit Scheme on the controls menu, then tab over to camera, select a binding as if you were going to rebind it, and hit Del to unbind it), then bind wing roll to right stick, so you can roll while steering.
Last edited by Californ1a; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:14pm
kalirion 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:27pm 
Thanks! BTW, what are the "Jet rolls" which are also unbound, and how are they different from "air rolls"?
Last edited by kalirion; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:29pm
Californ1a 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:31pm 
Originally posted by kalirion:
Thanks! BTW, what are the "Jet rolls" and how are they different from "air rolls"?
Jet roll/pitch is jets both on-ground and in-air. You want to bind this if your binds are separate from steering. For example, if you wanted jets on right stick separate from steering on left. Then, to make tight turns on the ground while boosting, you would turn both sticks.

Air roll/pitch is jets only in-air. You want to bind this if your jet controls are the same binds as steering. To make tight turns on the ground while boosting with this config, hold grip while turning.
Last edited by Californ1a; 5 Jan, 2020 @ 12:32pm
kalirion 5 Jan, 2020 @ 1:27pm 
I'm afraid I still find that quite confusing. But I'm not going for any speed records or the "All Gold" or whatever achievement, so I think I'll just leave it at default.
Californ1a 5 Jan, 2020 @ 1:48pm 
Maybe I can clarify a little more:
With the "air" binds, you can only use roation jets while you're in the air (those binds aren't active while the wheels are touching the ground), which allows you to have both steering and jets on the same stick (the default).

With the "jet" binds, the binds are active all the time, both while you're in the air and while you're on the ground.

The tight turn thing is a side-effect of the "air" binds not being active while on the ground. When you use the "air" binds, you can hold grip while turning for tight turns because the "air" binds don't work on the ground. However, if you use the "jet" binds, then you have a bind for the jets set on-ground, which means you can hold the individual side jet bind (roll left or right) + steering turn left/right to make a sharper corner turn.

The main difference is that one only works in the air (which lets you use a single stick config), and the other works both when you're on the ground and in the air (better for a dual-stick config).
m 8 Dec, 2024 @ 3:22pm 
This level and air mechanic sucks.
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