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Jon Shafer's At the Gates

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KazyJumps 6 FEB 2019 a las 7:13
Are upgrades from old professions supposed to be persistent (and active)?
I have a Tinkerer clan with 1 upgrade, giving them a base knowledge output of 30. They have 6 families and are nobles (and therefore happy) so they get a +50% boost to output, which should put their output at 45 knowledge per turn.

I get 53.5 knowledge per turn, 4 of it is the base research you get for existing, that leaves 4.5 knowledge appearing "out of thin air".

Except, this clan of tinkerers used to be a clan of Lorekeepers, and they had 1 upgrade from them too, giving them +3 base knowledge output, apply the 50% bonus and that explains where it is coming from.

This isn't how I expected upgrades to work, I thought they'd go inactive if you changed profession (and the ingame tooltip for "purchasing Profession-based Upgrades" supports this: "Upgrades only apply for that specific profession - switch to something else and the profession will be lost"), maybe they'd still be there if you then changed back, that could be reasonable, but to just always be active?

Also, I just noticed that the Potters (who had an upgrade giving a 50% boost to my reapers) who I turned into brickmakers still have that upgrade applying too. Oddly enough the tooltip for overall food income was showing food "from wheat" with numbers as if the bonus wasn't applied, so I had a food income per turn of 0, but the tooltip on the forage button for the reapers showed a number with the bonus applying, and I cancelled the foraging and restarted it and the overall food income tooltip now shows food "from wheat" that is 2.5 higher, so the bonus is applying (base wheat harvest for that reaper is 5), and my food income per turn is up to 0.1.

I'm certain there's at least some buggy behaviour here, either the upgrades are supposed to be cleared (and aren't) and it partially works for the potter upgrade untill you restart harvesting or they should be inactive (which they aren't) but still there if you change profession back or they aren't supposed to be cleared at all, but the effect was wrongly removed from the reaper wheat income untill harvesting was restarted.
Última edición por KazyJumps; 6 FEB 2019 a las 7:15
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Cragborn 6 FEB 2019 a las 20:22 
How do you get the upgrade to work? I researched an upgrade both before and after leveling (loading saves) to 10 in the discipline. Not only did the free upgrade fail to appear but the upgrade itself never appeared on the clan profession screen. So I can't figure out how to apply it, free or not. It sounds like you at least got the basic upgrade to work. Thanks!
#1
KazyJumps 7 FEB 2019 a las 1:21 
Upgrades are small buttons (green, if available, grey, if unavaiable, or brown, if free) beside the clan portrait. They should be there whenever the portrait is shown in any part of the interface.
#2
purringcat 7 FEB 2019 a las 8:00 
It sounds reasonable that a Tinkerer would remember what was learned from being a Lorekeeper. If you're a professional sous chef but started as the salad maker, you don't forget how to make salads when you get promoted.
#3
KazyJumps 7 FEB 2019 a las 8:03 
Publicado originalmente por purringcat:
It sounds reasonable that a Tinkerer would remember what was learned from being a Lorekeeper. If you're a professional sous chef but started as the salad maker, you don't forget how to make salads when you get promoted.

True, but Brickmakers (making stone blocks from coal) retaining potter bonuses (boosts harvesting professions) is a bit different I feel. Your suggestion is actually what I thought was going on initially. And is true in some cases, toolmakers and better toolmakers (whatever they're called, can't remember) retain their bonuses, but changing to weapon makers/steel tool makers doesn't retain their effects.

Also, if the bonuses can be retained they should be able to be picked by suitable advanced classes, so in this example if you directly train a tinkerer without it being a lorekeeper first then you should be able to pick lorekeeper updates I feel. At the moment that's only true if you've been a lorekeeper before.


Based on the hodgepodge of inconsistencies I can confidently say there is a bug here, I'm just not sure of what it is exactly.
Última edición por KazyJumps; 7 FEB 2019 a las 8:04
#4
purringcat 7 FEB 2019 a las 8:13 
Why should every promotion be treated the same across the board? There's logical progression in the Explorer tree but a jumble of topics in the Livestock tree. Treat them differently.
#5
KazyJumps 7 FEB 2019 a las 8:20 
Publicado originalmente por purringcat:
Why should every promotion be treated the same across the board? There's logical progression in the Explorer tree but a jumble of topics in the Livestock tree. Treat them differently.

That's my point, tinkerer retaining lorekeeper bonuses does make sense. As does advanced toolmaker retaining toolmaker bonuses (even steel toolmaker retaining iron tool bonuses could make sense, though they don't atm) and weaponsmith not retaining toolmaker bonuses makes sense too. But why is a brickmaker retaining potter bonuses? Their professions have completely unrelated effects.

And of course, makes sense isn't the only or even the most important metric. If keeping bonuses makes the game too easy removing all challenge then it's bad and should go. Also, the UI doesn't really display what bonuses are active very well, other than there not being upgrade buttons for your current profession (though that could be addressed by improving the UI ofc), I had to look up the numbers I was getting, manually check all of the bonuses and work out what made sense given the numbers I was seeing.
#6
greengoo 7 FEB 2019 a las 10:25 
ive had the upgreade button for profesion remain on the clan even when the clan change profesion.

so i can upgrade as loremaster skill even if they are say an explorea. its a bit odd but.. so meny bugs.
#7
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Publicado el: 6 FEB 2019 a las 7:13
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