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Jon Shafer's At the Gates

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Jon Shafer  [developer] 17 May, 2019 @ 8:31am
v1.0.1.5
v1.0.1.5 is now up in the unstable branch. It wraps up a major batch of changes to the caravan to help make it easier to use, more strategically relevant, and better-balanced.

Additionally, the unstable build should now work for Mac and Linux. I'm seeing an issue on my Mac where the first time I try to launch the game after updating to v1.0.1.5 or after switching from the default branch to unstable it locks up my whole system and I have to do a hard reset. This doesn't happen for me on Windows, and I’ve heard from someone that things were okay for them on Linux. Is anyone else on Mac (or Linux) seeing this on their end?

Save compatibility has been broken by today’s new unstable build (v1.0.1.5). This will happen rarely, probably with each major update (v1.1, v1.2, v1.3) but I’ll try to keep this to an absolute minimum. Sometimes it’s necessary in order to replace existing systems and in this case the way the caravan works is so fundamentally different it would have taken several additional days of work to both make the new changes and allow old games to be continued. From now on you can use the ‘unstable_old’ beta branch to continue playing with the last version uploaded before save compatibility has been broken, just in case you want to finish up an ongoing game before upgrading.

The plan is for v1.1 to be posted next Friday (assuming no major bugs pop up and I can figure out why the game is locking up my Mac after updating). The big changes in v1.1 compared with the last main branch update (v1.0.1) are related to food consumption, economic balance, and the caravan and on the whole the early game is now much tougher. v1.2 is planned for late June and will focus on making the Romans a bit more interesting and tackling a few quality of life issues (specifically, improving a few of the screens). v1.3 is planned for later this year and will tackle the AI and diplomacy. In the meantime weekly builds will continue to be uploaded to the unstable branch every Friday.

- Jon
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
david.froger 17 May, 2019 @ 8:54am 
Thanks for fixing the GNU/Linux build!

Each clan consume 0.3 food, but the help system still says 0.2
#1
clayffo 18 May, 2019 @ 4:55pm 
The caravan is horribly broken now. There is virtually no food for sale even fully upgraded. Also only horses and warhorses are available, no other animals ever show up. I went thru 7 caravans

Additionally the lvl 1 caravan is a bit stingy on critical starting resources such as wood and tools.

Finally the food pricing and availability is way wrong. Food should be 1 or 2 gold each and quantities should be available up to 150 ea. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to spend 150g on 50 food if it will only pay for a turn or less later game
Last edited by clayffo; 18 May, 2019 @ 4:56pm
#2
Jon Shafer  [developer] 24 May, 2019 @ 12:31pm 
I'm still tracking down the Mac issue so I'm pushing v1.1 to next week. v1.1 will be identical to what's currently up in the unstable branch (v1.0.1.5), except for maybe a couple small tweaks to caravan balance so feel free to play that in the meantime.

I'm also working on a new system which will make the Romans much more prominent in the midgame. I should have something fun to play around with on that front in a couple weeks.


Originally posted by clayffo:
The caravan is horribly broken now. There is virtually no food for sale even fully upgraded. Also only horses and warhorses are available, no other animals ever show up. I went thru 7 caravans

Additionally the lvl 1 caravan is a bit stingy on critical starting resources such as wood and tools.

Finally the food pricing and availability is way wrong. Food should be 1 or 2 gold each and quantities should be available up to 150 ea. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to spend 150g on 50 food if it will only pay for a turn or less later game

The caravan balance is definitely off, but the design is completely new so that's not surprising. I'll be changing the numbers a lot.

As for the design itself, the caravan is intended to be a useful-but-limited way of making up for the economic weaknesses the map or your strategic decisions have created. It's a bandaid solution intended to always feel a little bit stingy and a little bit expensive. Just like going to the ancient-era equivalent to a used car salesman should, IMO.

The price and quantity of resources is extremely easy to change in the XML though, for anyone who disagrees with the new design approach. The file to look for is CaravanLevels.xml.

- Jon
#3
clayffo 25 May, 2019 @ 12:09am 
So what you’re saying is that it was intentional to make it so food and animals are never for sale? That’s extremely interesting

The focus should be on actually putting bot scripts into the game. Right now you have a 4x game that’s not really a 4x game. It’s a survival game. How do you expect to balance the caravan or anything else correctly when there are no damn players?????

Adding players will change a whole lot of things you’re not even considering like resource balance, player clan mix, upgrade paths, defensive structures , offensive needs and trade/caravan needs; even decisions as basic as to moving the camp from the starting position due to your neighbors
Last edited by clayffo; 25 May, 2019 @ 12:17am
#4
warhawk_rider 27 May, 2019 @ 8:10pm 
@Jon - Thanks for the caravan fix. I think you're correct to address this first, so we actually have a fun game to play while you're continuing to work on the AI. I really like your band-aid analogy, and I think using the caravan should really hurt, to let you really feel you the cost of your decisions.
#5
Jon Shafer  [developer] 29 May, 2019 @ 7:36am 
Food from the caravan is intended to be hard to come by, as the primary focus of the game is the clans and on-map resources. The specific numbers will change as I improve the balance over time. What's in right now is definitely off, and I've purposefully erred on the side of making things tough. Once the opponents are made tougher it will take me only a couple minutes to loosen the screws and double, triple, or 10x the available food and shift the challenge elsewhere.

AtG is intended to be as much a survival game as a 4X game. There are lots of traditional 4X games, but not many which blend in other genres, like survival. That approach won't make everyone happy, but the goal from the very beginning was to try something new with AtG.

Much of my work the past couple months has been evaluating the core design of various systems, for both the short and long term. What's in the game right now reflects the short-term gains (e.g. the game being much tougher because food is hard to come by), but as more AI behaviors come online the fundamental systems will still be in-place and it will simply be a matter of tweaking the numbers. It's not really possible to try and balance the game for AI improvements that aren't in yet. Since I'm not spinning so many plates (e.g. hiring and managing artists, setting up websites, etc.) I've been able to focus more on the design itself, which I enjoy more anyway. It's a long-term investment though, and not everything will be transformed immediately. The sloppiness of the initial release was mainly the result of trying to do too many things with too little time. I'm now trying to take a more balanced, patient, and overall superior approach.

- Jon
#6
clayffo 29 May, 2019 @ 11:12am 
Jon, that's fine but there's something called player engagement involved here. a game needs players in order to be successful, irregardless of how good the content may be in the future. There's a reason only 4 players a day hit up this game.

your post above this one suggests you are rebuilding the company from the ground up, meaning it will be a while for this game to come to fruition. (i'm going to say at least 1-2 years)

This game is pretty low in the steam scrap heap at this point with virtually no engagement. Many core systems are simply not even developed yet, much less implemented.

I have a few suggestions for you and you can take them or leave them.

1. start working on ATG 2, to include all the things missing in ATG 1 plus these grand plans you have to be a market innovator ("There are lots of traditional 4X games, but not many which blend in other genres, like survival" )
2. build the game on a more modern platform so it looks and feels like it's worth $30
3. cut the price down to $9.99 permanently for ATG 1.
4. offer players who bought the game a credit towards the new game that will come out in 2 years.


#7
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Date Posted: 17 May, 2019 @ 8:31am
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