In my opinion, that the artillery shoots a salvo is less realistic, because in my opinion it is more like multiple artillerys shooting at one place at once but since there is only one arty, I don't see any reason why it should have 1 long cooldown and then a salvo.

I think that the artillery should be chanced to single fire weapon with medium cooldown, maybe 20-45 seconds. And then there should be the accuracy system like you suggested which requires line of sight. However, I think that the Radio operator could be removed from the SP units and made into regular, fairly cheap unit that is allowed to broadcast the enemy locations to artillery. There could also be somekind of radio center, which would be a bigger comlink radio that is carried by 2 infrantry man (just like MGs are carried) and the radio operators would be connected to the radio center.

The radio operatoers could also be applied to higher tier infrantry squads.

@terve886

That's right too, I think maybe adding an option to chose between 1 shot or a salvo of 6 would be ideal.
So that you can fire one shot and preserve ammo or just fire in salvo to avoid further micro.


Yeah how the Radio Operator works right now is a bit weird.
If we want to keep both roles, of Radio Operator and Artillery Spotter, then the Radio Operator should work same of the Artillery Spotter but with the difference of arty being off-maps and with maybe more Arty delay.

I just mainöy thnking that it would work like this:
Every infrantryman that the artillery can see, could work as a spotter.
The radio operators would be used in a situations, where you need to spot targets further away. However the radio operators will reguire the radio center to work, and that must be close to artillery.

Yes, I would really appreciate whatever change in the direction of making artillery more realistic and in general improvements in how Communication and LOS between units work in MOW.

These are my 4 pillars of where this series need improvements to make MOW a realistic RTS

-Morale / Suppressive Fire
-Soldiers fighting in squads
-Realistic LOS / Communication
-Replace payback with an income mechanism representing the shortening/stretch of defenders/attackers supply lines.

Making artillery more realistic is part of improving LOS/Communication.
And a Morale effect on enemy troops would be a nice "side effect" too for arty.


For me it's all about improving these 4 core warfare elements and making them work in sinergy.

cheers

Hello,

like your ideas HaZZarD...

How did things like these worked in WW2? Wasn t it nessesary to role out a lot of cables? So you had comunication to backwards lines like the arty command stand? For sure you had to get the information where to fire from the frontline to the arty command stand....

Arty was a key weapon in WW2. Arty stopped tanks, destroyed fortifications, bunkers

I once heared the most cassualities were caused by mortar shells.

I like the idea of the radiooperator. This is a very cool unit in the game. Wouldn t change that unit, maybe increase cost.

For players playing a fast forward assaultive game, arty is in general not so usefull, unless you have a mobile piece, cause relocation means micro.

I love gsm mod cause the arty plays a realistic role, due to the fact the maps are bigger so the longer ranges of arty guns can be game changer on the whole map if placed well.

If you have an arty piece on the field that causes damage its up to the opponent to counter it some how...

I do use arty like mortars and mobile pieces. Not the stationary as much. In ww2 most german arty pieces where horse powered, which means the were very slow relocating

Not sure what I would change exactly.

I think the small maps on AS2 don t really invite using a field gun. A mortar yes to defend a point. Calliope for sure cause you kill infantry very good with it, but a stationary gun? No I
don t have use for that on a small map. Its calles Assault Squad, need to advance


GSM has these bigger maps where I think a arty piece has more use in general....

Cheers !!!

Artillery observer

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A military artillery observer or spotter is responsible for directing artillery and mortar fire, mostly at opportunity targets[citation needed], and may be a Forward Air Controller (FAC) for close air support and spotter for naval gunfire support. Also known as "Forward Observer", "Fire Support Specialist", or "Fister". Most commonly observers accompany a tank or infantry manouvre unit. More recently a mission controller for an Army Unmanned Air System (UAS) may also act as an artillery observer[citation needed] and some armies use special artillery patrols behind the enemy's forward elements.


Broadly, there are two very different approaches to artillery observation. Either the observer has command authority and orders fire, including the type and amount of ammunition to be fired, to batteries. Or the observer requests fire from an artillery headquarters at some level, which decides if fire will be provided, by which batteries, and the type and amount of ammunition to be provided. The first is characterised by the British, the second by the United States. In World War II both Germany and the Soviet Union tended towards the British method.

Because artillery is an indirect fire weapon system, the guns are rarely in line-of-sight of their target, often located miles away. The observer serves as the eyes of the guns, by sending target locations and if necessary corrections to the fall of shot, usually by radio.

In the US System the observer sends a request for fire, usually to his battalion or battery Fire Direction Center (FDC). The FDC then decides how much fire to permit and may request additional fire from a higher artillery headquarters. FDC(s) convert the observer's target information into firing data for the battery's weapons.

In the British system the observer sends a fire order to his own and any other batteries authorised to them, and may request fire from additional batteries. Each battery command post converts the fire orders into firing data for its own guns. Until post-World War II the observer would usually order actual firing data to the guns of his own troop, this was enabled by the use of calibrating sights on the guns[citation needed].

On land, artillery observers are considered high-priority targets by enemy forces[citation needed], as they control a great amount of firepower, are within visual range of the enemy, and may be located within enemy territory


In the U.S. Army, a Light, Heavy, or Stryker Infantry company Fire Support Team (FIST) consists of a Fire Support Officer (FSO), a Fire Support Sergeant, three Forward Observers (FO), two Fire Support Specialists and three Radio Telephone Operators (RTO)[citation needed]. Armored/Cavalry FIST teams usually consist of just one FSO and three enlisted personnel. Brigade COLT teams operate in groups of two individuals, a Fire support specialist in the grade of E-1 to E-4 and a Fire Support Sergeant in the rank of E-5. Currently in unit training is beginning to incorporate more close air support and close combat attack missions into the field artillery team's mission.

In the U.S. Marine Corps, scout observers also act as naval gunfire spotters and call for, observe and adjust artillery and naval gunfire support, and coordinate fire support assets to include mortars, rockets, artillery, NSFS and CAS/CIFS. FO teams are usually attached to infantry weapons companies to provide indirect fire support to the company's movements.


From mid World War II some artillery observers were authorised to order fire to all batteries of their regiment, it also became the practice for some observers to be designated 'Commander's Representative' able to order fire to a divisional or corps artillery. Unauthorised officers could request fire from more than their own battery. During that war it also became the practice that FOOs[citation needed] arranged quick fireplans comprising several coordinated targets engaged by guns and mortars to support short offensive actions by the squadron or company they were with.

In World War II OP/FOO parties were normally mounted in an armoured carrier, although those assigned to support armoured brigades usually had a tank. Initially a Stuart but in NW Europe usually a Sherman Tanks continued to be used by some observers until about 1975. In 2002[citation needed] the British Army adopted the term Fire Support Team (FST) for its observation parties, including FACs under control of the artillery officer commanding the FST.

Mortar Fire Controller

A functionally similar title is "MFC" (Mortar Fire Controller). An MFC is an infantry NCO who is part of his battalion's mortar platoon. He controls platoon's fire in the same way as an FOO. The introduction of FSTs places MFCs under tactical control of the FST commander.

Training, enabled by simulators, allows most soldiers to observe artillery fire, which has long been possible via a FOO.

Main articAir Observation Post

The Royal Flying Corps and Royal Air Force had been responsible reporting targets and observation of fire in World War I, this role was subsequently called 'Arty/R, but proved difficult from high performance aircraft over hostile territory in World War II. In 1940 it was agreed that RAF AOP squadrons equipped with light aircraft, operating at low altitude over friendly territory and flown by Royal Artillery officers would be formed. These squadrons existed until the formation of the Army Air Corps in 1957.[2]


Cheerio....

So the keyelement is the transmission by radio.

Maybe should use the british model, where the radiooperator is needed near the frontline with a radiobackpack and is able to provide firesupport if the radio is not destroyed.

Really like that idea...

I guess the radio operators could also carry the signal guns, but instead of automatically calling a artillery barrage, the signal smoke should act as a accuracy increase:
1. Shoot with signal gun to certain area with radio operator.
2. Aim with artillery to the signal smoke.
3. The accuracy of artillery increases faster.

This would not be so realistic (maybe in some situations) but it would be balanced because:
1. the enemy knows you are targetting there (or then you just use it to troll your enemy).
2. it increases the accuracy, making it more effective against tracked tanks.

"Arty was a key weapon in WW2. Arty stopped tanks, destroyed fortifications, bunkers

I once heared the most cassualities were caused by mortar shells"

That's right and this is why I don't like the actual situation of arty staying out of the game as usless weapon and being even hated for destroying the gameplay.

Arty can be nice for gameplay but it need to be implemented realistically and become a skill-needed weapon just like all other weapons and just like it was in reality.
Not just click-and-fire but planning how to use it.

Ye the radio and communication in general was very important, that's also why as model for my Artillery Spotter I used a radio operator with his radio visible on his back and "armed" with an officer binocular.

For fix positions they used cables too to communicate but I think this would be too complicated for vanilla AS2.

In my opinion the idea of having an Artillery Spotter would be not that hard to implement and understand.

You just need to place it in a good spot with clear LOS on target area to see Delay reduced and Accuracy improving.
No spotter in position = bad accuracy and high delay
Then while firing would be cool to see the artillery adjusting its aim and gaining more precision.

Originally posted by terve886:

I guess the radio operators could also carry the signal guns, but instead of automatically calling a artillery barrage, the signal smoke should act as a accuracy increase:
1. Shoot with signal gun to certain area with radio operator.
2. Aim with artillery to the signal smoke.
3. The accuracy of artillery increases faster.

This would not be so realistic (maybe in some situations) but it would be balanced because:
1. the enemy knows you are targetting there (or then you just use it to troll your enemy).
2. it increases the accuracy, making it more effective against tracked tanks.

It's ok and historically plausible if the enemy see your signal and know what will happen.

An example is during the Normandy campaign when German generals saw a lonely bomber launching flares on ground, that was the leading pathfinding airplane with the task to increase accuracy for the following bombers, so Germans knew that that was a sign of imminent bombardment from the sky.

Germans had to dug in or run away but in both cases, even with Germans knowing what was going to happen, the final result was a rain of bombs on German positions and a weaker frontline for Allies to exploit and break through.

Good ideas HaZZarD.

Originally posted by HaZZarD:

It's ok and historically plausible if the enemy see your signal and know what will happen.

I was actually referring to the ability for artillery to see the flares to be unrealistic, not the enemies ability to see the flare.
It is little bit weird, if artillery, which may be behind obstacles could see the signal flares and get accuracy bonus. I was referring to that.

However I think it would still be a balanced though not so realistic feature. The cooridates of the enemy are already given to the artillery throught radio, so only reason to use the flares would be maximising the destructive power of artillery.

i like these ideas to make arty more useful. Right now it's priced to be avoided, because the gameplay of arty is not fun. But you can also see newwer players who don't understand the economics and pressure of hte game think it is still OP. It's a strange problem.

From competitive player persepctive..

AS2..
=====
But in regards to bigger maps for regular assault zones, i don't think it makes a difference to arty use. We play R6 maps whihc are essentially GSM maps for the most part on even less numbers on bigger maps.. such as 4v4 on a 6v6 R6(gms map) . The gameplay is essentially the same. It just has more room to flank and use terrain to attack.. that's why we like R6 compared to default maps. Room to move and flank allowing more tactics

The problems with arty are still apaprent there..
- not worth it in MP
- CP you cannot do much else
- Above all pressure play AS2 standard, you cannot survive if you buy arty. you won't be able to defend.
- Game will be over before your arty even starts to make its money back
- MG's nerfed from AS1, allowing infantry to move very freely to your spawn :P.. if you buy arty.


AS 1 comparison rant :
=================
AS1 was balanced alot better with arty, but it still had holes though.. arty was useless 3v3 under in AS1, but for larger games I could understand its uses . Though was not mystyle and i dont think it would of been worht it buying arty then myself but i could see it's beneifits for other players. Same with MG's i could see it's use in AS1 for some players where i didnt use MG's at all even in AS1..


GMS Comparison:
=============
I've also played alot of GSM recently., The reason ARty is useful in GSM and not in AS2.


1) The main thing that makes arty more useful in GSM is have stationary units/defense is strong. The lethality of infantry small arms is alot more.. such as MG's and emplacements... you cannot really assault a point with a MG unless you really flank or use something pwoerful like mortars arty.

2) 2nd is the ranges, make it harder to attack again. The things making it harder to attack, forces you to buy arty.. + arty is much more lethal in GSM in many varieties.. I buy arty all the time when playing GSM cause i think its necessary to take out some strong points.. otherwise my losses will be too high.

I think the question is how DMS could implement it effectively in game. Requiring a radio op man for transmission might work but would there be a separate unti you would have to buy? Or would they come with the arty itself? If separate there would need to be a new feauture in game where the radio man would need to "communicate" to a particular arty. Would it be possible for arty to use previous co-ordinates that it has shot from or must it use the co-ordinates that the radio op just said?
Good ideas though

Well ...I live in North West Italy, I have been in Zurich working 4 days non-stop, coming back to Italy meeting snow, heavy rain and hours of driving my car, went home and my home was even a bit flooded but still I put my time here for free to think and write a suggestion on an important matter and .... as many times already happened.... not even a little sign of interest by devs... this is sad to be sincere.

I asked for a feedbacktracker in the past and you replied me it was not needed as you listen and care of everything, can we be still sure about this ?

if you read everything then please take 2 min or less to leave a sign of your presence or one can misunderstand this as lacking of interest in players suggestions.
Is not just about my suggestions but other players too with their suggestions just ending at the bottom of the hub without a single reply or sign of interest, and is not that we have hundreds of suggestions.

As I like this series I must tell you that acting this way you really discouraging people in giving new ideas and the community of constructive discussions is just dying as the impression is that you are very on your own way and accept no suggestions at all.

I hope we can solve this issue in a constructive way, like mature people, and that this is just a miscomprehension.

cheers