FaceRig

FaceRig

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Sieve70 3 Dec, 2015 @ 10:15pm
Finger Animation Question - Specifically Thumb To Start
The "short" question here is - please explain the differences cited below between what is cited in you documentation and what is shown in the "yexample" avatar's animation - The "yexample" animation is in reverse order cited in documentation, and the bones are 1) nowhere near the mesh and 2) conflict with the movements of the mesh in the animation.


The following is the description of FingerR0_ExtFlex from your documentation:

"FingerR0_extFlex: - The right thumb goes to Extended (Frame0) to flexed (frame 30) in a closed position, as when in a fist. In the middle of animation (Frame15) it should be in idle pose."


I have imported FingerR0_extFlex.dae from yexample into Blender -


Looking at the mess of the right hand, and specifically for this post, the thumb - link to screenshots at end:

Not only is the animation in the exact reserve order, i.e. closed position to extended, the thumb is anatomically reversed from frames 19-24. The animation ends with the thumbnail pointing "backwards", bent down, and toward the body of the avatar!

Side note - Definitions used in previous paragraph are per the description cited at the top - note that the "closed" / "fist" position doesn't look "closed" or "fist" to me.

Now, go through the animation screenshots focused on the right hand bones... they start about 6" outside the mesh, and end with the thumb bone ending near the right arm elbow in Frame 24.


Below is a breakdown of what I'm seeing in the mesh of the thumb - not the bone, while it's visible - referencing included yexample screenshots in the file linked below. These screenshots are prefaced by "yexample" before the frame # in the filename:

Frames 0-12 are same frame - thumb in "fist" position (doesn't look like "fist" position to me, but using your definition)

By Frame 16 - thumb pulled back in completely unnatural position

Frame 18 - lower half of thumb pulled back completely and thumbnail still pointing "forward"

Frame 19 - lower half of thumb now pulled back completely, way beyond possible, and THUMBNAIL IS NOW POINTING "BACKWARDS" - TOWARDS the body.

Frame 24 - final frame - lower half of thumb now extended COMPLETELY "BACKWARDS", again way beyond possible, with top half of thumb still bent downward with THUMBNAIL POINTING "BACKWARDS" TOWARDS the body.


For reference, I have also included screenshots of our "FingerR0_extFlex" animation. These screenshots are prefaced by "CapJ" before the frame # in the filename, and were done per the animation description cited at the top - "extended" to "fist" position. Bones are inside the mesh, where we expect them to be...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwwek05dIUvucGktTWNJalI3ZU0/view?usp=sharing


This line of questioning will extend to the other fingers, as - for example - the R1 finger's mesh ends with the last / end knuckle section being to the rear of the the body around rib cage level - about a foot separation from the middle knuckle section - and the middle knuckle section ending in front of the body lower near the rib cage - about a foot from the hand...


Thanks!
Last edited by Sieve70; 3 Dec, 2015 @ 10:18pm
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
76561198257355317 3 Dec, 2015 @ 11:55pm 
hi,

Our 3D artists are checking this out. Thanks for understanding.
MihaiPreda 4 Dec, 2015 @ 2:18am 
Hi,

Please check out this video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8KlsC2kpc7nQVNycHp1NzdqNGM/view?usp=sharing
and let me know if this kind of motion is what you are seeing in 3D editing software.

Thanks!
Sieve70 4 Dec, 2015 @ 7:07am 
MihaiPreda:

No, it doesn't look like that in Blender...

I have linked to screenshots of 75% of the 24 frames of the animation - that is what it looks like in Blender...

If a video (these frames "in motion") is needed, let me know...
MihaiPreda 4 Dec, 2015 @ 8:00am 
Is it possible that Blender uses a different frame rate from 30 fps used by Facerig?
For instance Maya has a default setting set to 24 by default. Maybe is the case for Blender too?
MihaiPreda 4 Dec, 2015 @ 8:05am 
Oh, I've checked your screenshots... Something is definitely very wrong there.
It looks like some sort of reparenting took place, since rotation is centered in a different spot from it's original location. Does it look like it's rotating in respect to the world space?
Sieve70 4 Dec, 2015 @ 9:46am 
Sorry, but I'm an engineer first... I don't know what you mean by "world space"...
MihaiPreda 6 Dec, 2015 @ 1:33pm 
Hi,

Regarding the "world space" expression, please check this out:
http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/graphics-programming-and-theory/3d-basics-r673
Last edited by MihaiPreda; 6 Dec, 2015 @ 1:35pm
Sieve70 6 Dec, 2015 @ 2:33pm 
MihaiPreda - Thanks for the reading material!
Sieve70 7 Dec, 2015 @ 12:29pm 
Potato:

Any update from the artists?
Hi,

Our artists tried to figure out what's happening with our example data when imported to Blender but with default settings it didn't import correctly. On the other hand the same data imports correctly in 3dsmax, maya and Unity so we guess it's a matter of import settings.
We'll give another try and come back on this thread after the holidays.
Sieve70 8 Dec, 2015 @ 2:41pm 
Thanks for the update!

FYI - please also note - the same "reversal" is happening on export from Blender. You have our blender screenshots of our avatar as well - you can see they are "correct", but they are reversed (like the yexample imported to Blender) when we import into FaceRig - i.e. our avatar's thumb goes backwards in FaceRig.

(We made "FingerR0_extFlex" the Idle animation to check)

We'll try to get you video of it as well...
76561198257355317 14 Dec, 2015 @ 1:50am 
Originally posted by Sieve70:
Thanks for the update!

FYI - please also note - the same "reversal" is happening on export from Blender. You have our blender screenshots of our avatar as well - you can see they are "correct", but they are reversed (like the yexample imported to Blender) when we import into FaceRig - i.e. our avatar's thumb goes backwards in FaceRig.

(We made "FingerR0_extFlex" the Idle animation to check)

We'll try to get you video of it as well...
hi, ok we will check this out as well.
Sieve70 1 Feb, 2016 @ 2:47pm 
bumping up as a reminder...
MihaiPreda 2 Feb, 2016 @ 12:18am 
Hi Sieve70,

We've made several import/export tests these days, transferring data between Blender, 3dsmax, Maya and Facerig.
We cannot import correctly the collada or fbx files from Facerig engine in Blender. We assume that is an import module problem because the data can be brought correctly to 3dsmax or maya, in and out. Since none of us here knows Blender i's hard to identify the problem, to find what changes are made by the import/export module.

HOWEVER we did a test with some geometry and a camera object directly made directly in Blender and those DID transferred correctly in Facerig. I mean correctly from multiple aspects: transformations, materials, naming. Even the camera was oriented correctly in respect to the model.

This result suggest that as long as an artist is working in Blender, keeps the scene clean, and doesn't bring back the collada export, should get correct result for Facerig. By "keeping the scene clean" I mean the usual reset scale, reset world offset for skinned meshes, attention to the default pose on export, simplifying animation controller types for the final export bones (even though for editing purposes complex rigs could be used) .

In the near future we intend to make a very simple model in Blender to serve as a reference, as the current example data set seems unusable for a Blender user. But since even making a simple model in Blender is very time demanding for us, this reference will be postponed until we'll clear some time for one of our artists.
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