Unibodys vs body on frame May want revisit that

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Steven

3 Jan, 2024 @ 2:45am

Unibodys vs body on frame May want revisit that

in the game it feels like unibody should be used for every thing when in real life that's not really true Unibody is more like exo skeleton that is stuck to just one life form and if anything change that exo skeleton where is a body on frame is more like a internal skeleton both have there positives and negatives.

its not my game but to better represent the Unibody I would probably lower its durability due to unibody issue with twisting over time and raise the engineer complexity of unibody due to fact that unibodys are more complex also if wanted be realistic each unibody frame would only ever be able to be used with car that its made for and no other sense frame and car are the one and same, for example if you move unibody form one car model to other both models would look exactly light in body style and image so forth it end up being identical vehicles in every way and shape so every time you make a model car you have to recreate a whole new unibody. i am not to sure how elese to do that other than raising the complexity it adds to the vehicle because technically Unibody is not even a frame so it get engineered for each vehicle that just does not have happen with a body on frame.

my reasons on my thoughts are below.

Unibodys are generally more costly and take more time to manufacture sense you have to make a uni-body customized for each vehicle type, where body on frame car manufacture use same frame across multiple vehicles which can cut down on cost and time to build vehicles.

GMS line up of SUV and Trucks like silverado and other EVs are not not Unibodys the main reason the cost savings is the ability to put different cab and bed configurations on the same frame or attach diff battery or engines to same frame across multiple models is just cheaper.

Safety Unibodys general are safer but not for most pickup trucks which use body on frame and ones that do usually win the top safety pick awards and for example the Super Duty Ford F-Series and the Chevy Silverado HD models can tow over 30,000 pounds none of which use a unibody design so they have a higher durability for there frames.

Durability
body on frame has greater flexibility and body-on-frame vehicle is usually more desirable in hard working conditions or when traveling across uneven terrain. That flexibility allows its body to work with those conditions rather than against them, ultimately preventing small contortions from really affecting its skeleton.

the older unibody aka half frames like that which some of late camaros had where front half had frame and back half was unibody the unibody parts would had a rusting issue. for example I know for fact the 1967 camaros with half frames the durabilty of the rear ends would give out to elements so it not be uncommon to find them with rear ends of unibody rusted or crushed and the insides of trunks gone but the front half of the cars fine.

stiffness that unibody designs can work against them in off-road and hard working settings. As the vehicle’s body contorts on uneven terrain, the twisting forces exerted on the body can make it bend and lose its shape over time from running over pot holes or over uneven terrain which does not happen with a body on frame vechile. with unibody Consistently driving on uneven pavement and bumps will eventually misshape a unibody vehicle’s frame over time. they simply do not have same strength and durability as a traditional frame.

A body-on-frame vehicle resists twisting forces more, allowing it to do better at tasks like off-roading or towing. They’re also great for modularity and collision repair, as you can just unbolt badly damaged sections of vehicle and bolt another one on as long as the frame isn’t seriously compromised, this can not be done with a unibody, Unibodys are designed to crumple in an accident even minor ones.

https://www.autolist.com/guides/body-on-frame-vs-unibody

https://www.motortrend.com/features/body-on-frame-vs-unibody-vs-monocoque-what-is-the-difference/

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/28/gms-ultium-trucks-suvs-arent-really-unibodies-or-body-on-frame-what-should-we-call-them/

Last edited by Steven; 3 Jan, 2024 @ 3:00am

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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments

Eric.B [developer] 3 Jan, 2024 @ 10:30am

You are free to mod the game. I am no longer working on classic GearCity outside of bug fixes.

Bounty #129[www.ventdev.com] in our feature bounty system addresses this issue and a few more chassis rating issues for our upcoming GearCity: 2nd Gear DLC.

Recently funded Bounty #57[www.ventdev.com] and Bounty #59 [www.ventdev.com] will also play a heavy factor in improving sub-components ratings.

As for Offroad ratings, Bounty #107[www.ventdev.com] covers that.

The game right now is balanced in a way that pushes the player to adopt unibody. It also accounts that the durability rating is used for several vehicle ratings and not just the dependability of the chassis or its off-road ability. The game currently does not have incremental improvements to sub-components that prevent us from making a design inferior in its early days and superior in its latter stages. The aforementioned bounties address some of that.

Last edited by Eric.B; 3 Jan, 2024 @ 10:33am

Steven

6 Jan, 2024 @ 10:23pm

I did end up making a mod I even add four new frame types that where used in real life.

hopefully meets your approval the only aspect i copied was your blue print background, blueprint images them self I did not use stock but find real blue prints of those frame styles form free sources and then edited them enough so they be little different than original blue prints.

I worked off of your original balance from the carriage as the base and then used chatgpt along with some web page sources to figure out pros and cons for every frame type and why they all where created and stopped being used..

there now total of 10 chases if I think if ever make a new gear city game like gear city 2 maybe add anther tab for car design ? because now unibodys are connected to a subframe these days there hard bolted on to them. I thought about changing name of Unibody to what they really where called Monocoque but I didn't, Unibody gets there whole support from the body it self just like Monocque there no sub frame.

one thing I did learn that I did not know is that the superleggar was used constantly in UK roadsters and that frame type is still used by some car company's today.

mostly car company's like Lamberigin the 2008 Lamborghin Gallardo is a superleggera

It was due to the old style uibodys which where just all one piece they just where not that great not customization and hard to develop sense had to redevelop for ever model and even every year sometimes, they where good for like a model T thought. because you could skip mass producing frame so even thought development cost was higher the fact so many could be sold made you recoup cost on the out sale.

I know that the body style is kind of the body is just for looks in current game system not for anything real statically in game, but maybe if you ever get to making a new simulation like gear city 2 it might make sense to have person need to develop and research body chassis also.

so to make car you would have to add a Frame, Engine, Body chassis, Transmission
then could do like in real life and move the safety features from the frames to the body chassis as research and technology advances.

hopefully you don't mind mod and maybe even like it who knows.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3132593791

Last edited by Steven; 6 Jan, 2024 @ 10:48pm

Eric.B [developer] 7 Jan, 2024 @ 1:39am

Originally posted by Steven:
I did end up making a mod I even add four new frame types that where used in real life.

Awesome! I wish you much success.

hopefully meets your approval the only aspect i copied was your blue print background, blueprint images them self I did not use stock but find real blue prints of those frame styles form free sources and then edited them enough so they be little different than original blue prints.

Perfectly fine. I meant to release the source files for this artwork, but sadly, the artist lost them.

I worked off of your original balance from the carriage as the base and then used chatgpt along with some web page sources to figure out pros and cons for every frame type and why they all where created and stopped being used..

Be careful with ChatGPT on Steam. It's currently against Steam's TOS for developers. I'm not sure about their workshop policy.

there now total of 10 chases if I think if ever make a new gear city game like gear city 2 maybe add anther tab for car design ? because now unibodys are connected to a subframe these days there hard bolted on to them.

It is unlikely that there will ever be a GearCity 2. I have zero plans to revisit the automotive industry unless someone wants to piss away invest roughly a million dollars to develop the game with a proper budget. Barring that, we only have the FBS DLC expansions to GearCity. The first one is named GearCity: 2nd Gear. It's not a new game, though. Maybe that's where you're getting confused. It's the same game. The community is just paying my discounted labor rates to tack on new features/artwork to the old game.

If you wish to make bounty requests for the DLCs, you can do so here: https://www.ventdev.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=51

I know that the body style is kind of the body is just for looks in current game system not for anything real statically in game, but maybe if you ever get to making a new simulation like gear city 2 it might make sense to have person need to develop and research body chassis also.

I originally intended to tie body types and vehicle artwork to the Vehicle/Body Design Skills. However, in the former's case, there isn't really a skill restriction to making a vehicle type. Designers would just copy the design. (See the history of the modern minivan.) In the latter case, it's silly to restrict the limited amount of artwork in the game. Locking players out of either would make for bad game design. So, that skill rating makes micro improvements to the vehicle design ratings.

so to make car you would have to add a Frame, Engine, Body chassis, Transmission
then could do like in real life and move the safety features from the frames to the body chassis as research and technology advances.

The plan in the FBS is to eventually have selectable equipment options under the body designer, an idea I hate but heavily demanded over the last 14 years. https://www.ventdev.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3858

Steven

9 Jan, 2024 @ 1:55am

seems like steams fight against chatgpt might be a losing battle sense bing and google both have chat style AI now built into there search engines also Microsoft is incorporating AI into there OS like a chat gpt.

I think fighting AI movement is something that is not going be win able for people who dislike AI

I thought about maybe making diff versions of the frames one for diff years based on players skill level like type 1 type 2 or something but I thought at time this be redundant
thinking that the research made improvements tot he designs like frames and so forth.

I know in last message said its micro but that is still something some percentages can make big differences when layered but maybe someone else like to push it further who knows.

to get the blueprint background I revise-red engineered the blueprint I use adobe to do it the technology that is on top of it.

if u like I can send you that file ? sense its ur image anyways, i kept the background in-case I ever did want to add anything else to game so i have to saved as a PDF file with its layers broken down.

but if you like it just let me know I am sure can send it to you via email or something., that file in it self pretty much is what need for people to lay out designs to kinda look like whats in the game.

could even send it back to original artist also sense they lost stuff I am going guess due to the war sense I thought said they where in Ukrainian and or put it on your patron page its your art. ?

Adobe Art is just something I mess around with now and then not really my thing 100% never was able to really draw on a computer screen my friends on other hand are pretty good artist.

Last edited by Steven; 9 Jan, 2024 @ 2:10am

Eric.B [developer] 9 Jan, 2024 @ 11:13am

Originally posted by Steven:
seems like steams fight against chatgpt might be a losing battle sense bing and google both have chat style AI now built into there search engines also Microsoft is incorporating AI into there OS like a chat gpt.

I think fighting AI movement is something that is not going be win able for people who dislike AI

The law was settled a while back here in the US, but that was before the OpenAI explosion. Since then, there have been several major lawsuits against them in the works. And then there is Europe, which is much more stringent, and the case law is unsettled there.

So Steam is taking a cautious approach.

I thought about maybe making diff versions of the frames one for diff years based on players skill level like type 1 type 2 or something but I thought at time this be redundant
thinking that the research made improvements tot he designs like frames and so forth.

There are bounties in the FBS that will implement this much more cleanly:
https://www.ventdev.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3841
https://www.ventdev.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3840

to get the blueprint background I revise-red engineered the blueprint I use adobe to do it the technology that is on top of it.

if u like I can send you that file ? sense its ur image anyways, i kept the background in-case I ever did want to add anything else to game so i have to saved as a PDF file with its layers broken down.

but if you like it just let me know I am sure can send it to you via email or something., that file in it self pretty much is what need for people to lay out designs to kinda look like whats in the game.

You're welcome to send it, and I'll upload it to the wiki. The game also has a blank .dds file, but it needs to be converted to a usable format. I could never do the conversions years back because I'm a GIMP shop, and the GIMP plugins had some issues with it. It may have changed since.

Steven

9 Jan, 2024 @ 5:13pm

I think I half to add you as a freind to be able to send file across steam, I know you can upload pictures across steam so I would awesome photoshop image work work ?