This thread is by far the most interesting and informative post I've seen in regards to this game since I bought it. Thanks!

Originally posted by Ronnie Law:

As far as Librarians, I guess my BA Librarian spoils me.
The ability to run FB, Prescience and Psy Storm is just amazing.
The additional Psi is pretty amazing too, as I don't have to post up often so he can recharge.

The Ultramarines and DA Librarians has the same three powers. The area affect power for DA is slightly different but used in the same way. That leaves the extra 5 PSI as the only advantage of a BA Librarian. And SoS. If one uses it. The BA advantage is not as huge as it seems. Try one of the other two and see if you miss anything.

Originally posted by The Superjew:

This thread is by far the most interesting and informative post I've seen in regards to this game since I bought it. Thanks!

Thread hijack successful. It's no longer about combi-weapons, is it?

Originally posted by Ronnie Law:

I was disappointed with Deathwing but it does make me want to run a DA playthrough.
I just can't figure out the squad setup I want to use.
I don't like DA Librarians at all.
I'd probably end up running 3 Plasmas, but I really don't like the Apothocary either.

The Death Wing are UBER just make sure you have the bonus in AP for start.
Almost all of them can get 5 AP easily. so even if you dislike the Liberian (me too, just doesn´t fit the squad) hate the Apothocary (cause it feels weaker then the Sergant.)

You still have the awesome squad.

Originally posted by Ronnie Law:

I think this depends on your AP.

I'd like to add to the game mechanics described in the above post:
Reloading the Bolter reduces the plasma heat gauge by 2 without losing the sustained fire bonus.

With the stock plasma, you can empty your magazine on OW, shoot plasma twice, reload bolter, shoot plasma five times to reach overheating, then set OW. That's 10 AP.

With 40 shots, you can only do so five times.

Another important aspect about combi weapons not mentioned so far: Ammo conservation if multiple Terminators overwatch the same area. Confused? "The Long Guide" describes ammo usage in the section "Overwatch with Multiple Terminators". Read that first: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=349501434
Short version: The first Terminator will always use 2 bullets with his Storm Bolter while later ones may use only one bullet.
If the first Terminator (e.g. your Sergeant or the "number 3" ranged Terminator) has a Bolter, and any of the 1st bullets kills the target, everyone uses only a single bullet. This means one less wasted bullet per overwatch action. This effect is very noticeable if hordes of 'stealers storm through a chokepoint defended by one Bolter and two or three Storm Bolters instead of nothing but Storm Bolters. For the same reason, I got good results with the Storm Bolter Incaladion which unlocks earlier than the first combi weapon.

Regarding skills, Eagle Eye is the best skill to use with any combi weapon. The perfect Terminator for Bolter overwatch has Improved Photolenses, Targeting Reticules and Eagle Eye. Not Overwatch Upgrade.

Eagle Eye improves the chance to hit (CtH) for the second and subsequent shots against the same target by +10 %. All other upgrades increase the CtH by +5 % for all shots, including the first.
Against targets with 1 HP the difference is small but in favour of Overwatch upgrade (unless CtH with the first shot is very low). Targets with multiple HPs require at least 2 shots to kill, most likely more. Against those targets Eagle Eye beats Overwatch Upgrade. In addition to that, Eagle Eye works outside overwatch and affects plasma weapons.

Comparing plasma weapons, you either get 40 or 50 ammo with + 20 % CtH or 25 ammo with + 50 %. Which variant scores more hits?

CtH in % is BS * 10 + weapon modifier + skill modifiers + sustained fire bonus - target modifier +/- range modifier
weapon modifier: + 20 % or + 50 %
skill modifiers: none (Apothecary can get + 5 % from Targeting Reticules)
Sustaine fire bonus: + 30 % with Eagle Eye, otherwise + 20 %
target modifier: on impossible up to - 25 % for some 'stealer variants
range modifier: assume 0
Ultramarines: + 5 % chapter bonus

Assume a Sergeant with BS 5 and Eagle Eye. Basic CtH is 45 % for stock and Wrathfire and 75 % for the Valthek-II which increase to 75 % or 100 % with sustained fire.

Expected ammo consumption per hit:
Stock and Wrathfire: 1.73 ammo per hit (*). (23 or 29 hits respectively before ammo runs out)
Valthek-II: 1.25 ammo per hit (**). (20 hits)

Other factors:
- Multi-HP targets favour stock and Wrathfire because of higher ammo supply.
- If the weapon goes volatile and does not kill one of the targets, you gain the sustained fire bonus against that target. That favours stock and Wrathfire because of higher ammo supply.
- AP usage favours the Valthek-II, using up nearly half an AP less per hit.
- Heat gauge (5/8/3)
- Probability to go volatile (unknown)
- Probability to inflict more than one damage on a hit without going volatile (unknown)

With unlimited AP, the Valthek-II is the worst of the three. With AP being in limited supply, the Valthek-II is probably best.


(*)
Probability to consume
1 ammo: 45 %
2 ammo: 41.25 %
3 ammo: 10.3 %
4 ammo: 2.6 %
5 ammo: 0.6 %
6 ammo: 0.2 %

(**)
Probability to consume
1 ammo: 75 %
2 ammo: 25 %

Bumping this thread again because it's awesome.

Regarding ammo conservation - so for example if you had three terminators in a 3x3 room facing a hallway and had 2 stormbolters and a 1 combi bolter, ideal setup would be:

Ranged (terminator 3) combi-bolter directly facing corridor from far wall (more total shots with combi bolter as he sights GS first at longer range).

Sergeant (T1) with stormbolter and Ranged (T2) with stormbolter to T3s left and right.

T3 fires one shot per GS move until GS (if surviving)is in range of all 3 terminators.

Then all terminators fire one shot.

If GS still surviving, T1 and T2 will consequtively fire one shot each(conserving heat) and likely killing GS before T3 has to waste any more Combibolter ammo.

If you really want to conserve total ammo longer(at the expensve of the combi bolter ammo), move T1 next to the doorway facing the entrance square infront of the corridor.

That way T1 will not fire as often but when he does he (being T1) will still fire before the others conserving their ammo slightly. He will still get to fire 3 times (GS moves to door way, GS moves one square in, next to T1, GS turns before attackng T1).

One thing is not quite right. If all Temrinators are in the same squad and T1 (Sergeant) can shoot, he is the first to shoot and will spend two ammo with his SB.

For maximum benefit, the Sergeant is the first to use a combi-weapon.

For the same reason the AC should go into squad two. That way five Temrinators with Bolter/Storm Bolter shoot prior to it: Two Sergants and the three ranged/melee from sqad one. Then the AC may use only one or two bullets in overwatch instead of ten. If the taget is not dead after two bullets (assuming there is at least one SB), the AC will use bullets three to ten.

The same works with a Tarantula. IIRC it shoots after all Terminators.

My Thinking was that ideally you want T3 with the combi on the hallway to conserve ammo the longest as he can shoot the stealers the furthest away. So If a GS makes it into T1s field of fire you would want T1 to fire first to hopefully save T3 having to fire a second shot on that square.

T1 doesnt have to conserve ammo as much as he has least opportunity to fire.

If absolute ammo count was the goal (ie you expected all terminators to completely run out of ammo/heat) then you could put T1 on the corridor with the combi and put both T2 and T3 on either side of the door way facing in with the stormbolters.

T1 would use more ammo faster that way but once he was dry T2 and T3 would likely kill everything until they ran out of ammo (up to 6 shots each with stormbolters?) as the GS still have to move twice + turn in their line of sight and they get close range bonus on every shot.

Great info about tarantula and assault cannon. Didnt realise it worked the same way with AC also, thanks!

my dark angle Sargent is in love with the combi plasma. like others have said it has the potential to hit multi targets and makes it pretty easy

Having just unlocked the Combi-Melta, whose shtick is melting multi-HP targets, I find that due to the firer's high BS (5 at this point), he's usually taken off almost all of the target's HP, so one more shot usually does it. Also that range is SOOOO short.