thanks

IF+10def****
good info thnx!

Originally posted by REAPER:

IF+10def****

It is substracted during 'stealer attacks. Not added. Weapon defense is substracted, too.

How many points in Toughness and Weapon Skill is "needed" before going melee? And how do you survive until that point, if you don't want to put points in Ballistic Skill that will become wasted when switch to melee?

Melee does not exactly work for Terminators. A dedicated melee unit may kill 50+ 'Stealers before it dies. A 50:1 kill ratio is in favour of the Genestealers. Even 100:1 might be. Melee is not a power option. You do it for fun.

Originally posted by mass:

How many points in Toughness and Weapon Skill is "needed" before going melee?

TS5. And some sort of a TS bonus. WS is of secondary importance. At least 4.

Originally posted by mass:

And how do you survive until that point,

Storm Bolter. Because it's the only other option Melee class has.

Originally posted by mass:

if you don't want to put points in Ballistic Skill that will become wasted when switch to melee?

If you are targeting TS5, WS5, AG4 and PC (perception) 4, you have a problem. One option is to start with 4 ranged and 2 mleee. Keep 3 melee in reserve. Until your SB has multiple relic upgrades. Including +accuracy. Then start leveling up those 3 melee units. The other option is to bite the bullet and use BS4 instead of PC4.

Possible +TS boni:
- Fists (equivalent to +2TS)
- Shield of Sanguinius (+2TS)
- Frost weapon: +35 defense instead of +30 (power sword) is equivalent to +1TS; add chapter bonus which is equivalent to +0.5WS

A dedicated melee Terminator has acid proof and at least one +5% attack skill. The third skill may be broodlord slayer. But another +5% attack is tempting.

The best +defense any TH/SS or LC combo gives in the unmodded game is +20 (TH crusher/SS pavise). That is not a lot. Assume WS5, TS5, 2*+5% attack and acid proof as skills against a biomprph (e.g. acid maw; WS5; TS5, +10% attack) Your single attack hits 35% of the time (hard difficulty setting). Each of the 2 'stealer attacks hits 15% of the time. That is not good for you. Not good at alll.
Add Fist chapter bonus or Shield of Sanguinius and the 'Stealer probability to hit drops to 5%. Replace Acid Maw with Feeder Tendrils (reduce TS5 to TS2) or Flesh Hooks and the Melee Terminator is in serious trouble.

Yep I know melee isn't optimal. I've just levelled ranged terminators in two playthroughs now, and it becomes "too easy" once they're levelled up. Especially flames trivialise a lot of missions. So I figured it was either melee, or some chapter without flames (only Fists afaik?). And since Fists have melee defense, it was two flies with one swat.

But if even high-level terminators require a lot of Quick Saves, then I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

Thank you for the in depth reply :)

So far a melee class terminator is more effective with a storm bolter than with lightning claws or thunder hammer.
Melee is just terribly ineffective because you loose the ability to control the battlefield.
You can 'raise' as melee termie when you play with the option 'replace dead termie with same level or lower level termie'. First spec the termie for ranged combat and once he has increased a few levels let him 'accidentally' die on a mission. The replacement termie can then be re-skilled to melee.

Originally posted by Chance Callahan:

So far a melee class terminator is more effective with a storm bolter than with lightning claws or thunder hammer.
Melee is just terribly ineffective because you loose the ability to control the battlefield.
You can 'raise' as melee termie when you play with the option 'replace dead termie with same level or lower level termie'. First spec the termie for ranged combat and once he has increased a few levels let him 'accidentally' die on a mission. The replacement termie can then be re-skilled to melee.

"Brother! Go charge the battle lines alone! FOR THE EMPEROR!"
"If the Emperor requires my life, I shall give it"
"Uh...Sure, we will go with that. It has nothing to do with wanting a new terminator."

On a more serious note, I was wondering this myself. Thanks for all the help guys.

Hey Dv, just wanted to throw in a very sincere thank you for Cold Corridor Combat. Ascension was already my favorite Space Hulk game, but you made it simply superb. I start over every time you push out an update at moddb...

May the Emperor's blessings be upon you!

thx