Dead by Daylight

Dead by Daylight

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Docfreeman 19 Jun, 2016 @ 2:50pm
Balance Changes from a Rank 1 Killer
Dead by Daylight is an amazing game but with some serious design flaws when it comes to the point system, the ranked system, and IMO most importantly, game balance. My hope with this write-up is to suggest to the devs ways to make it more fun and fair for both survivors and killers.

Please keep in mind it is simple not possible for any one person to think of every consequence of these changes so I am happy to discuss anything I overlooked in the comments below. Also, please refrain from commenting on how these changes would effect players point gains, ranking, etc. We are mainly focused on discussing the balance of the game experience in and of itself. These changes are aimed at non-group queued survivors balance. I will discuss group queue later below.

**The state of the game at high levels**

For experienced players, the game basically goes like so. The match starts and the survivors see a hook and know who the killer is and begin working on a generator, They plot their course to the nearest juke loop area and determine whether or not it will make them invulnerable depending on if they are facing the trapper. When found by their experienced killer counterpart, they make it to the juke spot, or get caught. Repeat ad infinitum till the generators are on and gates are open. An experienced survivor rarely gets caught and killed as the game is survivor sided due to perks and map design.

The experienced killer knows this is their strategy so decides to play trapper because he might be able to shut down a juke spot or catch the experienced survivor in a silly mistake. If the survivor makes it to the juke loop, he leaves immediately unless he feels that the loop can be trapped and shut down. If a survivor attempts to not use the juke loop 9/10 they are dead as sprint trails and game sense allow the killer to track their prey easily, doubly so if hit once and moaning. It is very rare for the killer to lose someone mid chase without a loop to make him leave against a good killer. If the survivors are not aware of the juke loops, have no perks or are not careful, it usually ends in 4 deaths, hence why inexperienced players find the killer too strong and balance is tricky as buffing the killer for high ranks makes him steamroll low ranks.

**The gameplay experience**

This is not very fun for the killer, nor is it fun for the survivors except for the few times a bad killer chases you around the jukespot like a ♥♥♥♥♥ for the whole game then loses horribly. Dead by Daylight is designed as a game about the tension of hunting and finding your prey as killer or narrowly avoiding the killer and surviving, but these moments of tension do not exist for experienced players on both sides due to the games balance flaws, leaving a predictable and hollow gameplay experience. Good killers very rarely lose where their prey is, and good survivors do not try to hide during the chase as they know they will usually be found and die.

I want to bring back the tension for both players whether it be the amazing feeling for survivors when you manage to hide from the killer as he is chasing you and he walks right past your hiding spot, or the satisfaction of finding that cheeky survivor who doubled back and hid in a locker.

**The balance changes**

**Survivor**

* The survivors sprint trail has been buffed immensely-Sprint trail lasts for half of its current duration and is further reduced or increased by killer and survivor perks. This is to encourage and enable the survivor to get some distance from the killer with a pallet or window then be able to hide effectively without being followed forever due to the trail. Stopping to walk leaves no trail as usual but in the current game your trail is so long you rarely can do this without being found.

* Sprint perk-nerfed severely as this is game breaking in its power. Changed to 100% speed with double the cooldown at all tiers. To compensate for the nerf, the perk will only go off when the killer is within 10 meters of meg and she sprints, avoiding wasting the perk.

* Self Care-nerfed to have 1 use at rank 1 and 2, two uses at rank 3 and 4, and 3 at rank 5. With the hiding changes, being able to always take one hit then hide and heal up unlimited times is too strong and negates the medkit too much.

* Saboteur-Similar to above, this perk forces the killer to take Iron Grasp every game because if they have it and you don't take iron grasp, you will not hook anyone.

* LightWeight-Due to trail changes, all tiers nerfed by 50% to a max of 1.5 seconds of trail hiding at tier 5. The killers trail lengthening treatment will receive the same change.

* Iron will-triggers when killer enters hearing range of pain grunts, lasts for 10 seconds. Cooldown decreases with rank from 60 seconds at tier 1 to 20 seconds at tier 5. This was changed because no perk should flat out remove a vital game mechanic.

* Flashlight-Now has double effectiveness against the killer while he is in an action thus making it much harder to avoid. Similar to its effect the wraith stealth. When breaking a pallet, carrying a survivor, hooking a survivor, executing a survivor, placing a trap, revving, chainsaw dashing and he is flashlighted, he is stunned for a short time.

* New mechanic-window skill check. When sprinting over a windowsill or fallen pallet a skillcheck is triggered. Hitting the good zone in this skillcheck will keep the player from falling over and being on the ground for a short time. Hitting the great zone will give a tiny speedboost to the player. For every window hopped over within 15 seconds, this skillcheck's difficulty increases exponentially. This adds an element of skill and fun to running away as survivors and fixes window juke loops without having to outright redesign some areas of the maps. Better survivors can hop more windows and juke harder without falling than less skilled survivors.

**Killer**

* Predator-nerfed by 50% at all ranks due to sprint trail changes.

* Perk added, Agile Monster-climbing over windowsills speed is increased by a max of 30% at tier 5.
* HillBilly cleave radius increased by 30%- against any survivor worth their salt, sharp turns shutdown the hillbilly very hard as you cannot land chainsaw at all, to the point where your chainsaw misses when they are slightly to your left. This should make the chainsaw actually hit its targets when you are saying all the time "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t how did that not hit".
* Wiggle mechanic changes on killer side-while carrying a survivor, their wiggling periodically triggers skillchecks for the killer. Missing one will cause you to drop the survivor. Good skillchecks are neutral and Great skillchecks reduce the survivors wiggle meter by a bit. These checks do not increase in difficulty.

**Group Queue**

With this mode on the way, it is important to realize that balancing between group and solo queue will be nearly impossible as making the killer strong enough to handle organized groups would make him murder everyone in solo queue.

With this in mind, here are my suggestions for letting the killer stand a chance in group queue and be incentivised to actually queue into this mode.

* This mode has no ranking, but does earn bloodpoints.

* The killer earns 30% more bloodpoints in this mode than normal and his caps are increased by 30% in each category.

* The survivors must repair 6 generators instead of 5 and the map will have 8 generators, not 7.

* Generators take 20% longer to power.

* Exit doors take 30% longer to power.

If these change seem harsh, it is because most people underestimate how strong an organized group of survivors on coms really are. To be honest it may need to be even harder than this if you want to give killers a fighting chance in this mode.

**Conclusion**

I know this is a lot of changes but before commenting please try to look at them all as a whole instead of each in a vacuum. Each change has cascading effects on the others in terms of balance so looking at any one change without consideration of the others is an exercise in futility. I will be updating this thread as comments roll in and I feel I need to make any changes to my write-up. I encourage you to discuss the games balance and hopefully get the devs attention in making the gameplay experience much better.

Thanks for reading.
Last edited by Docfreeman; 19 Jun, 2016 @ 2:52pm
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
Zouls 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:03pm 
Really nice thread and definitely worth the read. i cant comment too much since im by most definitions a scrub xD

But i can see this quickly becoming the case. Two things i agree on is Skillcheck on window and skillcheck on wiggle (for the killer). I also think that the party with friends will be a complete disaster because i see three scenarios

1) Ranked and PWF is balanced towards Ranked. Killer has zero chance in PWF
2) Ranked and PWF is balanced towards PWF. Survivors has next to no chance if they arent premade
3) PWF is harder than Ranked. Ego stroking survivors will want easy points and just keep queing like the do now.

I think that you are right that it needs to work like 3. where its harder as a party. But to go along with that they desperately needs to punish lobby jumping with a time penalty of a few min. to heavily discourage jumping between games.
★Kawasaky 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:11pm 
I'll comment so your post doesn't disappear, but you should know that the devs get more money from the new people who buy, play 10 hours and then doesn't come back so much, so they are gonna do nothing to boost the killer as the 80% of the playerbase plays survivor and they will not want to annoy them a lot.
Flowby 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:19pm 
Realy interesting thread i hope the devs will read it, because your suggestions are realy good ;)*
thanks for caring so much about this game, even with all those issues i have faith this game is gonna be awesome as soon as it will be fixed
Pure Hostility (Banned) 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:21pm 
I don't understand why you would want to increase number of ranks for perks from 3 to 5...
Cloud McFox 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:30pm 
I love you.

(no ♥♥♥♥)
Docfreeman 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:31pm 
Originally posted by Pure Hostility:
I don't understand why you would want to increase number of ranks for perks from 3 to 5...

Brown, Yellow, Green, Purple, Pink. Each Perk has 5 tiers of rarity.
XJ9 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:31pm 
TL DR :alexpope:
Prince-Nyan 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:41pm 
I was expecting this to be another salty killer thread, but you've done well to look at both sides.

If you want to deal with the window hopping, you can simpily request that continious hops through a window within X time will cause the hopping action speed to decrease by X% each time. (Aka - Fitague)
This allows killers to stalk a window juker if they attempt to abuse the window as each hop will slow them down. Thus brining you closer and closer to catching them (like a real chase)


Now as for your buff ideas,
No. Not yet, we need to solve the window exploit, then see which side is stronger before taking action. Incomplete data just causes salt if the buffs/debuffs are unreasonable.

Group lobbys;
Can't say much, but 20% and 30% for gens/gates seems very reasonable. However, it's not confirmed or known how much better a team with mic plays vs a team without. So it's best to not touch anything with de-buffs until there's feedback.
Also, even if survivors are op. The killer should not get X% boost to blood points as people will exploit it with pre-made killers. The killer will need a buff against a group with a mic, but not the ones you listed.
Lapin Galarga 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:46pm 
Game is horrendous against any survivors with even a modest IQ.
Zouls 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:47pm 
Originally posted by TripSin:
tl;dr - Come back when you have both rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor. Then maybe anyone should care about your wall of text.

As only a rank 1 killer your opinions is going to be completely biased.

In glancing at it however - I notice you seem to be implying trapper is the only viable hunter? Lol. Bad killers need to stop perpetuating this "wraith is the weakest killer" meme. Go to tru3talent's stream on twitch and watch his vids and maybe you'l lrn2play.

I could try to argue with you. but you never post anything productive on any thread so i will just reply with something on the same level

"Stop breathing. you are wasting the oxygen"
Last edited by Zouls; 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:47pm
Philthie (Banned) 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:55pm 
I just came out of a game and all night have been really disheartened with the game. I was about to make my own thread to say a lot of similar sorts of things as stated here by the OP. This is a good thread and I agree 100% with all of the points.

I am tempted to wait for the next good patch before playing again.

I am no rank 1 killer, or maxing out my points every game, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice most of these gameplay flaws.
Docfreeman 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:56pm 
Originally posted by TripSin:
tl;dr - Come back when you have both rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor. Then maybe anyone should care about your wall of text.

As only a rank 1 killer your opinions is going to be completely biased.

In glancing at it however - I notice you seem to be implying trapper is the only viable hunter? Lol. Bad killers need to stop perpetuating this "wraith is the weakest killer" meme. Go to tru3talent's stream on twitch and watch his vids and maybe you'l lrn2play.

You have not actually addressed any points of mine but instead responded with insults. This isn't helpful nor does your opinion on what I wrote matter in that case.
Zouls 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:57pm 
Originally posted by Docfreeman:
Originally posted by TripSin:
tl;dr - Come back when you have both rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor. Then maybe anyone should care about your wall of text.

As only a rank 1 killer your opinions is going to be completely biased.

In glancing at it however - I notice you seem to be implying trapper is the only viable hunter? Lol. Bad killers need to stop perpetuating this "wraith is the weakest killer" meme. Go to tru3talent's stream on twitch and watch his vids and maybe you'l lrn2play.

You have not actually addressed any points of mine but instead responded with insults. This isn't helpful nor does your opinion on what I wrote matter in that case.

Just wait. more of them are coming. the forums have become a toxic cesspit of knee jerk reactions.
TempestFunk 19 Jun, 2016 @ 3:58pm 
Originally posted by ★Kawasaky:
I'll comment so your post doesn't disappear, but you should know that the devs get more money from the new people who buy, play 10 hours and then doesn't come back so much, so they are gonna do nothing to boost the killer as the 80% of the playerbase plays survivor and they will not want to annoy them a lot.

But the changes that are suggested are not aimed at nerfing bad survivors. Infinite window hopping is something that new players just do not do, but it's a mechanic that allows good players to completely shut down the killer.

A lot of the changes here are not buffs/nerfs to either the killer or the survivors but rather a buff/nerf to play styles. By changing the mechanics that allow killers to track players while making infinite jumping more risky you encourage more of a 'run and hide' meta instead of the 'run and wait at a window' play style we have now.

One more thing I would like to add to this, Closets need to be buffed. right now it's way to easy for the killer to hear anyone inside breathing, the auditory breathing range needs to be reduced and there should be a 'hold breath' button to make you completely quiet. that might make closet hiding a little more viable. Right now they are just newbie death traps.
Last edited by TempestFunk; 19 Jun, 2016 @ 4:02pm
Mr. Loki 19 Jun, 2016 @ 4:05pm 
Originally posted by Prince-Nyan:
I was expecting this to be another salty killer thread, but you've done well to look at both sides.

If you want to deal with the window hopping, you can simpily request that continious hops through a window within X time will cause the hopping action speed to decrease by X% each time. (Aka - Fitague)
This allows killers to stalk a window juker if they attempt to abuse the window as each hop will slow them down. Thus brining you closer and closer to catching them (like a real chase)


Now as for your buff ideas,
No. Not yet, we need to solve the window exploit, then see which side is stronger before taking action. Incomplete data just causes salt if the buffs/debuffs are unreasonable.

Group lobbys;
Can't say much, but 20% and 30% for gens/gates seems very reasonable. However, it's not confirmed or known how much better a team with mic plays vs a team without. So it's best to not touch anything with de-buffs until there's feedback.
Also, even if survivors are op. The killer should not get X% boost to blood points as people will exploit it with pre-made killers. The killer will need a buff against a group with a mic, but not the ones you listed.

... A team without mics VS a team with? how is that even possible to even draw that question. You telling me communication in a game like this would have no bearing? being able to give a killers location, to inform your group that you have him distracted by window jumping, to give his position should he be camping your hook.

If (well not if, when) they allow communication (most likey 3rd party) because that is all PWF will be for, I would say disable any visual queues such as seeing where a team mate is downed, hooked, or approaching (if your ever even hooked in this game type), I would even go so far as to say only allow one survior to repair one generator sorry team work is now done by voice coms not within game. PWF should not be allowed in ranked, many killers will leave this game.

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Date Posted: 19 Jun, 2016 @ 2:50pm
Posts: 30