Conquest of Elysium 4

Conquest of Elysium 4

 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
chriskessel 19 Nov, 2015 @ 9:06am
Basic strategy for first 20 turns?
I've started probably 30 games and not gotten terribly far with any of them. Learned a ton, but I can't seem to remotely hire enough troops to keep up. I have maybe 10 gold production after snarfing anything close by, thus it takes me about 5 turns to hire 5 troops for most factions (e.g. 5 archers for 50 gold),

However, I'm losing more than 5 guys in those 5 turns just fighting off all the random creatures. If there's an Ancient Forest or Haunted City nearby or it's even more hopeless as those spawn a ton of stacks.

I basically tread water retaking what the independents are taking from me while slowly falling behind on troops due to attrition. The only kingdoms I've had much luck with is the Troll, who is a one-troll wrecking crew and a faction I can't recall that had charm spells that let me convert human opponents pretty regularly.

I've got to be missing something obvious to crank my production.... I've tried sending out my secondary hero solo to snarf up anything not guarded, which works a little, until he gets snuffed and then the stacks retake all the things he took over the next few turns.
Last edited by chriskessel; 19 Nov, 2015 @ 9:06am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
gazomierz 19 Nov, 2015 @ 9:54am 
Yeah, lil troll is awesome, and when mama appears... man, oh man :)

General tips:
For the opening stategy. It's really important to conserve your troops, you don't have to take every location, even if it's a very good one. Often it is better to build up your force and avoid heavy losses. You're basicly aiming at overpowering enemies to the extent when they just can't really fight back. That is the safest way, some races are better at this than others.

Independent packs running wild all over the place are not that big concern. They move at random, some of them have preferable terrain they will try to stick to. Wildlife likes forests, giant mantis like plains and savannah, dwarfs like mountains and hills and so on. You don't have to kill all indie packs, and I would not recommended that in the early game. Only kill those that pose direct threat to you or your holdings (if worth it, always asses the risk-reward). Very often if indie packs takes a location from you it will move out in a turn or two, so it's sometimes better to wait them out and just capture it back once they're gone. Only thing you really have to worry about losing is your citadel, so it's a good idea to secure the second one fast if you have the possibility. But again it's not worth loosing your army over that. If you can't get second citadel always keep the original one garrisoned.

Exploration:
Now, exploration... Never send heroes solo, not the basic ones. It works for demon lords, trolls and such but it's always risky. Commanders are a rare resource in this game and you have to take extra care of them. That is even more true in early game. Commanders give you flexibility, they allow you to move units around and react to surroundings. If you loose one of your commanders early on it might take some time until you'll get next one. And they also cost money so it won't help you in building up your army. It's good idea to stack on commanders even if you don't immediately need them, but that is later in game.

I would suggest to explore in a circular motion around your home citadel. If possible try to stay in one turn move range of it for first few turns, until you can garrison it. That way if any indie pack is getting too close you can track back and defend. About sneaky units you can't really do much except leaving troops behind which early game is often not an option so you just have to sacrifice to Nuffle and hope for the best.

The huge part of this game is risk-reward assessment. And it can be tricky until one learns the capabilities of all the different units. The more you will play the game the better you will get at this, it comes with experience.

Summoning:
Last thing, summoning. It's not a thing for all races but for those that can summon they're hugely important. I usually prioritze holdings producing special resources I need. Lot of the creatures you get by summons are gamechanging and much more powerful than regular dudes. It depends on the race you're playing how you spend these resources. For some of them cheap, early summons are really worth it (High Cultist and High Priestess) but I tend to wait for bigger ones and I would suggest the same. One demon lieutenant can secure your expansion more often than not.

I wish i could give you more specific answer but survival in this game depends on so many different factors, what race are you playing, what is your starting screen spawn and so on.

I hope that was helpful at least a little bit and I wish you best of luck in future Conquests of Elysium. :)
Last edited by gazomierz; 21 Nov, 2015 @ 8:07am
chriskessel 19 Nov, 2015 @ 10:02am 
That helps. It sounds like I'm just far too aggressive, that I need to take a much more cautious approach. Which is opposite of most 4x-ish games where you tend to rush out and land grab as quickly as possible, then consolidate.

The land grab approach seems to lead to my doom in CoE! I'll try being more deliberate.
gazomierz 19 Nov, 2015 @ 10:08am 
Sorry, was editing the post as I forget about summoning, added that part.

By all means try to grab as much as you can. Expansion is very important, it's just you have to carefully assess is it worth it every step of the way. Sure, you can just go for it and count on being lucky, it's also an option. But I wouldn't call it a strategy :)
gazomierz 21 Nov, 2015 @ 3:07am 
I decided to bump this topic as it answers a lot of questions asked time after time. And I believe it can prove helpful/useful for some of the novice players.

I also added spoiler tags to my post here, as well as some of my other posts, as it was pointed to me the advice I give is, in fact, kind of a spoiler. I know how much joy it gave me to explore the game and learn all the tricks myslef. But not everyone have the time or is willing to spend so much time and effort on a game. I apologize for the damage already done and sorry I haven't thought of that before.

I'll get to rewriting it as a "Basic survival / General Tips" guide. It will probably be ready next weekend, I'll work on it during the week. Until then I will bump this topic every couple of days if needed. That is, if moderators don't mind of course.

If anybody feel the need, pls, commence with the flame ^^

Edit:
As suggested I removed the spoiler tags here. Good idea, thx :)
Last edited by gazomierz; 21 Nov, 2015 @ 7:46am
knowthyself2 21 Nov, 2015 @ 3:21am 
Playing during the empire might be a little easier. Otherwise, I recommend turtling for a bit before venturing out.
Illwinter should think of ways to spice up the early game. I know Starcraft once changed their game a good bit by starting your harvesters automatically harvesting at the beginning of the game, and now starts you with more resources and harvesters, too. That's because there were few meaningful decisions to be made in the game's opening moments.
Illwinter could take the cue.
edirr 21 Nov, 2015 @ 3:34am 
I decided to pin this thread to the top, because gazomierz has posted a lot of good newbie advice. We might as well continue to use the thread for the same purpose to discuss early game strategies.
gazomierz 21 Nov, 2015 @ 7:26am 
Thank you very much for the kind words as well as for the sticky. It's always nice to feel appreciated.
peterebbesen 21 Nov, 2015 @ 7:43am 
I'd suggest getting rid of spoiler tags now that this is a general place for newbie advice for the early game; Those who read it will either a) be looking for advice, or b) be looking to see what's already covered to know whether they should contribute advice.
Last edited by peterebbesen; 21 Nov, 2015 @ 7:43am
juulius ebola 21 Nov, 2015 @ 7:59am 
Reposting my quick necromancer guide:

Necromancer is my strongest class actually. I have the easiest time expanding.

Use apprentice to raise dead on gallows and pick up starting units with necromancer, but leave two archers for defense at home. Pick up all of the skellingtons with the necromancer from the gallows on the same turn but leave the soulless for the apprentice to bring back to the citadel for extra defense.

Take a city or a port with your mages and death stack asap. You'll lose lots of units, but you can raise them with apprentice right after.

Use necromancer to expand. If they get low on chaff then refill with minor summoning.

Buy spear men at cap and take them with apprentice then have him scout around in a different direction and take poorly defended hamlets and such.

Don't raise dead until you get a lich or a vampire unless you see a graveyard or something similarly juicy.

Use crow spies (L1 ritual) instead of dark knowledge to scout the map. Crows are by far the strongest scouting method in the game.

Trade for hands and save them to upgrade to lich or vampire depending on what site you find. Both are really strong. I prefer the vampire because they're cheaper, but a lich can really pour out the hurt with two spells per turn. Don't get greater lich until you're swimming in liches.

Explore hades and find citadel of the dead. Position a lich on the corresponding elysium square and cast "planar shift" to simultaneously capture a level 3 library and release the prince of death on the world.

You're welcome.
gazomierz 21 Nov, 2015 @ 6:57pm 
Repost as well since we're on the subject of Necromancers.

Also there's a trick for handling insane units. As long as you put them under command of another hero it doesn't matter how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy they are. You can buy some cheap hero and gather your madmen as long as they have a moment of clarity instead of eating their own feet. Just thought I'd mention it.
Last edited by gazomierz; 21 Nov, 2015 @ 7:04pm
melting_wax 22 Nov, 2015 @ 1:58am 
How to conserve your units in the early game:

- pick your fights wisely and consider risk/reward: it's certainly not worth it to lose half your units to conquer a farm. It might be worth it to conquer a city or a gold mine with heavy losses, but keep in mind that you might need to fight another player soon, who can just take the empty gold mine/city from you. The necromancer can usually do this, because he can replace his chaff immediately (use the apprentice for raise dead!)

- do not split up your units in the early game and do not garrison. CoE's battle system punishes this in the early game. The more units you have in battle the less losses you take (there are some exceptions). Since targets are picked randomly it becomes less likely the same unit is hit twice, if more units of your units are valid targets. When your total damage output increases, you'll take less hits as well. Defend your citadel by actively removing bandits and wildlife.

- If you run into another class, that split up its units in the early game you'll 98% win the first battle against him and be in unit advantage (the AI always splits up). The easiest way to push your ressource production is to hunt down that AI, take him out of the game and conquer his belongings for free. This also gives you a 2nd citadel and thus gives you a very strong early game position.

- establish a complete frontline first then focus on ranged units. The complete frontline helps to distribute hits along your units. Ranged units help to increase the initial damage and general damage output and thus greatly reduce losses. With 1 row of melee and 2 rows of ranged, you'll kill most wildlife without losses.

- a class that is able to supply solid melee units by game effects / rituals should focus on hiring ranged units otherwise his stacks will soon be out of balance. For example the Necro or Baron might want to hire archers with higher priority

- replace your melee losses asap. Use your 2nd commander to shuttle units to your main stack, while he does the conquering.

- actively defend your territory (if you can). Especially Look out for sites you controlled last turn and lost control without anything being there. These are usually stealthed bandits, whose movement pattern forces them to move directly to the next site (which might be your citadel). Find the Bandit Lair and flag it asap. This stops bandit spawning (check if the bandit lair remains flagged in future turns!). You have to take out bandits, because they will go for your citadel sooner or later. Take out all the wildlife you can without taking substantial losses. They will only run into your belongings randomly, so they are not high priority. But if you need to move back to retake a site this takes time and this is time you're not doing useful stuff like gaining more sites, which in turn hinders your unit production. Sites also give you some reconnaissance and might tell you when you need to get back to defend, which is very important.

- burn down ancient forests, unless you use them. This usually happens, when transitioning from early to mid-game, but when you get a commander that can burn, this solves the forest spawning forever ;-). Only burn, when you have 2 AP left. Burn and move out immediately, because the fire can damage and kill units. In CoE4 you're allowed to flag Ancient Forests as well (edit: wrong this was special to the Baron), so do that and the animal spawning stops. Many spellcasters can burn.
Last edited by melting_wax; 25 Nov, 2015 @ 5:54am
Orpheus 24 Nov, 2015 @ 6:19pm 
Long post, sorry!
Especially early in the game, be EXTREMELY cautious with summons that have a chance to attack you. If you want or need to use them, have plenty of troops on hand, and ideally do it far from any locations that you can't afford to lose. Otherwise, not only could you lose your commander, but some rebellious summons will rampage through your territory, steal your resource sites and potentially even your capital.
Conversely, if you somehow find yourself in the rare position of having a commander that you can afford to lose, attempt high level summons as deep as possible into enemy territory. Even if you lose your summoner, whatever you called up will appear on your opponent's doorstep rather than your own. Since the enemy then has to either divert troops to kill it or accept extensive losses of territory, the failed summon will in effect still be fighting for you - it may not be under your control, but the impact on your opponent is the same as if it was.
Other general advice: Once you have enough troops to hold your territory, recruit every commander you can afford. Spellcasters, summoners and resource-harvesters are particularly helpful, but even common Captains and Goblin Chiefs are good to have (since they allow you to move troops around without taking your more prized characters away from their duties).
Commanders who harvest resources that you don't actually need are still helpful to your economy, since you can quite happily trade away whatever resource it is that only that character can use.
Don't go to the Void. Just don't. Your commanders will die horribly, and everyone at their funerals will say "We told you so!". There MAY be some potential reward for going there, IF you can survive long enough to find it. But you won't.
The sea is an effective defence. There are few (though still some) aggressive aquatic mobs, so coastal holdings are generally less vulnerable to attack since enemies can only reach them from one side. HOWEVER, watch out for amphibious Deep Ones and undead. Conversely, if you're playing a necromancer or High Cultist, you potentially have back-door access to every coastal region. Take advantage - explore the sea, and look for weakly-guarded coastal towns. Don't fight Sea Dragons, and DON'T swim to the Void.
Barons have a large early advantage in that they can summon - FOR FREE - troops to protect their gold-generating properties. However, while the Levies can fight off deer and the odd bear, they're not that tough. And a necromancer with literally ONE Ghoul can turn them into an army. Somebody already mentioned burning Ancient Forests - if there's a druid or witch in the game, burn EVERY forest if you can. If YOU are a witch or druid, anything that can burn forests is a high-priority target. Since forest fires spread, one Pyromancer can potentially wipe out your economy from miles away, so kill them on sight.
Accept that you'll never have as much iron as you want. If you have Trade points early on, buy iron even if you don't need it right away. You'll need it later, especially if your faction can't easily raise an army by summoning (Baron, Voice of El etc). Regular, recruited troops can also fill tactical holes in your army - few early summons have decent ranged attacks, for instance. Even necromancers, who in theory can survive without ever recruiting troops the normal way, still need iron to upgrade all those Raised minions into decent soldiers.
niddhoger 29 Nov, 2015 @ 11:43pm 
Aye-garrisons are a huge trap. You sacrifice your early game expansion and chance at blitzing an early enemy for a few small forces that won't survive long anyway. At most, a ranged unit or two in a fortified location can fend off a few deer without seriously hampering your army. Only do this if it also grants a special resource, like a town that grants relics, hands, or sacrifices.

A far better strategy is to build up a small "police" force. Say. A captain and a mix of 10-20 combined melee/ranged (as resources allow, a captain and 5 spears works well enough at first). Ideally they are stationed in a citadel (those towers or a city) for reinforcement, but their main job is to reflag surrounding nodes and kill off weak indie spawns. As mentioned earlier, the more overwhelming your force, the fewer casualties. Dropping off 3-5 units each on 10 nodes will suffer high attrition. Having a captain lead 20 units to watch over 10-20 sites that he can reach in a few turns each is much more efficient.

Plus, once an are becomes pacified and/or resources allow, I'll flesh out this army upwards of 40 units and send them off to the front line or off exploring a new frontier. Eventually they take a new citadel and the process repeats itself. Expansion is still insanely important, but you have to e smart about it and retain what you conquer.

This is a hue part of successfully winning CoE4. You have to efficiently spend resources and manage your armies. Your doomstack can't be everywhere at once, and is extremely wasted chasing smal fry. I also add extra commanders to my large stacks to deal with flies. A captain or apprentice can take 10 troops to kill a bandit or deer with no losses, while my 80+ strong parent army sieges a city or continues exploring. The daughter army then makes a beeline for the main force to regroup. Thus us obviously a risky move in enemy territory, so keep that in mind. Remember though, no matter how large a single army is, it can only fight one battle a turn. So fighting 3-4 battles a turn with 3-4 smaller armies is preferred over keeping them together... So long as you still keep attrition minimal. Redundant commanders can also ferry reinforcements around the map and act as backups to prevent a headless army being stranded.


D'oh! I've wandered a bit too far from the early game advice! Just consider your starting army as your first police force. Explore that circle around your base and cautiously attack sites that are lightly held, or are of extreme value. A bakemono can afford to waste an early army taking a mountain mine, since they get free units in them. A necro can do the same for atown/city. You get more hands and can reanimate a horde afterwards. Your second commander can serve as resupply. As resources allow, send him back to base to pick up the new troops and ferry them back to your army. Hopefully he'll have found a juicy site there reinforced army can take!
Strategiusz 28 Feb, 2016 @ 10:54am 
For me it works fine when I leave just 2 archers in a fortified sites. The neutrals monsters probably have some algorithm and they don't attack guarded fortification until they have a big advantage.

Playing vs AI is strange because it often makes very stupid moves, that looks like random, it often doesn't attack when he has advantage, or he can't manage to retake his villages. And because of that I think I make sometimes risky moves, because I hope that the AI will not exploit that. But sometimes suddenly it does and I am screwed.

It is normal that new players doesn't know what monsters they can defeat with their army and what they can not. I remember when I attacked just 2 Banshees in an Old Castle. I even didn't check their stats XD.

And I think yet another popular mistake is forgetting that you can change spells that a mage will use in battles. Very often it is useless to use defensive buffs or some offensive spells are useless vs mindless monsters.
Last edited by Strategiusz; 28 Feb, 2016 @ 10:59am
Orpheus 28 Feb, 2016 @ 12:17pm 
Something that helped me a lot, is when you are trying to learn strategies for a particular faction, play against a team of AIs, all using the faction you want to learn, while you use one that you're already comfortable with. If you lose, you'll see what tricks the faction in question is capable of and how it wins. If you win, you'll have an idea of its weaknesses, and so know what to watch out for from opponents.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
Per page: 1530 50