ICEY
would whip 13 Dec, 2016 @ 8:02pm
Lore/Story General Thread ENG
Story Discussion
I don't know about the rest of you, but I finished the game with a lot of questions, and unfortunately I can't read Mandarin. I felt it would be important to share some ideas in the English-speaking side of the community to try and relate some of the Lovecraftian and dystopian references just for the purpose of general understanding, given how cryptic and disjointed the presentation of the game's background is.

There will be spoilers, so please finish the game in its entirety before reading ahead.


The first place I would like to begin with is the significance of the Yellow King, or Hastur, and the repetition of his namesake throughout the game. We know very little about the internal culture surrounding the lost inhabitants of the game, however the Jack fight in the marionette theatre and the encounter with [Hastur?] himself does show us that there is some sort of following surrounding the existence of the Yellow King and the land he hails from, Carcosa, within the ICEY universe. This may be scientific, religious, or some other form of devotion that is not entirely clarified. We know little about what the direct meaning of Carcosa is within this game, however in the Cthulhu mythos, which the game repeatedly pulls from, it is the homeland of the Yellow King, and the land that he rules over. This connection implies a kind of divinity to Carcosa, given the context of the Yellow King as a deity figure as he is portrayed in this game. To this end, Carcosa in the ICEY universe may be a form of heaven, or even a real location among the cosmos, that the ambiguous level of scientific research going on within the game discovered. Again, much of it is left unclear by the the cryptic nature of the game's lore reveals. Given Hastur’s relationship to ICEY, which I will discuss in depth later on, I choose to believe that Carcosa is a form of tangible heaven (or hell) that is inhabited by Hastur. The scientists themselves provide a majority of the information for how Hastur exists in this universe. They refer to him as god, singular, and for what may be part of a search for immortality, they are looking for his name. There is also mention of multiple deities within the universe here, however Hastur himself is said to have 9 billion names, implying that these other deities may just be iterations of the single entity that is the Yellow King. Personally this theory fits well to my own speculation based on my knowledge of the game's story, but I'm interested to hear other people's opinions.

This brings us back to Jack, and his relationship to the scientists as well as Hastur. He is said to have faith in the Yellow King and the existence of Carcosa, and even tried to become the Chosen One and serve under him. However there are a few aspects of this that raise questions we must answer to understand the full situation.
1.) How is he related to the scientists? Jack bears striking resemblance to ICEY, in his moveset and his visuals (and the gun he uses is especially reminiscent of the gun that the prototype ICEY used in our look at the cut version of her ranged weapon as seen in the unfinished room cutscene, if my memory serves), implying that he is a kind of rogue creation from the scientists who created ICEY. They both are the only humanoid beings of their kind, if UCEY and the other robots are any indication, however Jack distances himself seemingly intentionally from Judas and his organization and is even off the required game path, only to follow the will of Hastur. This relationship sets up for a correlation between Jack's story and ICEY's origins.
2.)How are ICEY and Jack triangulated with Hastur? ICEY is repeatedly branded as "the Chosen One," which repeatedly seems to imply that she was chosen as a champion of Hastur himself. If she is his chosen one, then Jack's hostility toward her and will to replace her and become the Chosen One himself explains how "his heresy made him unfit to serve the Yellow King." If ICEY truly is his champion, then we have formed the relationship between her, Jack, and Hastur successfully. However there is a piece that we are ignoring from the original point.
3.) The now most important and least obvious question here is how are these three characters (ICEY, who is Hastur's chosen one, Jack, an outcast disciple, and Hastur, the god himself) all related to the scientists and the lab that created them?

I am of the opinion that there is a piece of information missing about how the scientists interacted with Hastur in their search for his name that connects the gap between ICEY's origin and the black star. I think within the missing link, we would see that ICEY was created within the same lab that was producing the UCEY robots, and the reason she is different is as a result of this interaction with Hastur. She is his chosen one, which implies that his influence is the reason she is hunting Judas whereas Jack is still looking to serve Hastur.

This would partially explain why ICEY is fighting Judas's organization, as well as why the rise of the black star coincides with the death of Judas. Additionally, this may or may not show how the girl in stasis that we see as part of the UCEY scene is related to ICEY. She is only shown in that single instance to my knowledge, but given everything else we know about the lab itself and the fact that she is shown alongside UCEY, I believe she is a manner of a vessel for the deity- a shell with no need for memory or emotion with a single goal given by its creator- kill Judas.

Because of the way all these pieces fit together, I am led to believe that ICEY is truly a vessel of Hastur, who has sent his influence from Carcosa manifested as ICEY herself via the lab's contact with Hastur. Through their contact, Hastur managed to use ICEY as a means to causing the black star event, which evidently is associated with Judas in a way I do not yet fully understand. This explains why Judas and his organization are all trying to stop ICEY, why Jack has isolated himself from the same organization that created him, and why ICEY is who she is and does what she does. Going back to Carcosa as it is portrayed in the Cthulhu mythos, "the black stars rise in Carcosa," which to me only points to the idea that ICEY is truly doing the bidding of Hastur.

But even still, what led the scientists to search for him? What is Hastur's true relationship with Judas? And what caused the black star to rise? Judas and his organization are overtly portrayed as the antagonists in this game, but if the devs wanted to teach us anything it’s that the narrator is not to be trusted. But I digress. The lore surrounding the other bosses obviously plays a large role in how we are to interpret Judas's organization, but I don't really have enough information about them yet to form a definitive answer about their purpose outside of my other speculations.

I know I just talked on many different points with very little justification, but everything in ICEY is interconnected. Well, except for the narrator's fiance and the whole true ending phenomenon, but I'm focusing on the in-game universe at the moment. Please let me know what you think about all of this. I really feel strongly about the idea that ICEY is doing Hastur's work and maybe there is some significance to the fact that Jack's boss fight is in the marionette theatre. There is still much to be said about this game, but that's why we are in a discussion forum. Feel free to attack the points I've made and present entirely new ideas, we are all here to learn more.

Finally, thank you for reading the giant wall of text I just posted. I put more thought into this piece of writing than into the english paper I should be doing right now, so I hope my efforts are not in vain. Good luck, and happy lore hunting to everyone out there!

-Moonwalk
Last edited by would whip; 14 Dec, 2016 @ 5:44am
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Showing 1-15 of 121 comments
Bassathat 21 Jan, 2017 @ 8:11pm 
I don't think tha ICEY is doing Hastur's bidding knowingly.
I think her role on the story is the one of a free agent manipulated by forces that have interests in the conflict, in that sense I think the narrator is some sort of agent of Hatur whose role is to encourage ICEY to kill judas and trigger the rise of the black star. after all the narrator discourages any and every action taken that doesn't lead you to judas, the whole marionette theatre being one of those areas.

Other point of interest is that the whole story has three levels: the basic level which contains the Judas portion of the story, the narrator level, and the observers level. and it seems to me that, in order to completely understand the story of the game one must consider those three levels.
I think that because the switch bettwen Trinity and Dahal points towards the idea that the world where the Judas story takes place is a digital one, which is coherent with the narrator level and with the observers level. therefore I think that the story of game must be interpreted using those 3 levels at one and avoiding as much as possible the idea that the metanarrative aspects of the game are "just a joke" or don't have anything to do with the story.
Zesc 13 Jun, 2017 @ 12:22pm 
This might come extremly late (half a year after the last response...), yet i've got totally hyped by this game's lore.

Assuming what the OP said is right, i want to continue this in a logical way, including what Roboent said before: One should focus on the entire plot, not just the tiny piece of obvious lore one gets, the meta-narrative being no exclusion.

So, my theory is: What if we, the players, are Hastur? With Hastur's goal being to create an ICEY with an self?
See, it was already pointed out Jack resembles a prototype ICEY, and he wanted himself to be the Choosen One. Yet ICEY became the vessel for Hastur (e. g. the player), not Jack, thus the reskinned pre-ICEY turned agressive in order to become the Choosen One, and the rest is knows.
Yet, my interpetation of the events after Jack are different: You noticed that visual effect of an Eye watching ICEY and that other guy? And in generall, all other screens with Eyes on them watching ICEY? The always appear in places significantly shaping ICEY's later self. What if these monitors are Hastur? We, the player, watching her every step she takes?
Not even the narrator (himself a character of the game, as hementoned himself) has full control over what's happening. Only one person with the true power of a god is able to rule everything. Only the player.
Furthermore, the Master is having 9 billion names, right? Althought this point is more far-off than the rest: Soon, there will be 9 billion humans on this world, each of them a possible player. And hey, of our currently 7 bil., how many migth have multiple names?

This turned into another wall of text, and i know my thoughts are not in order, and probably extremly confusing, but i think carefully reading this will make clear into which direction i've been thinking.

Cheers, and sorry for the necro.
would whip 13 Jun, 2017 @ 9:33pm 
I haven't read your response yet, but thank you for keeping the thread alive! Glad to know I'm not the only one.
would whip 13 Jun, 2017 @ 9:42pm 
Originally posted by Zesc7:
This might come extremly late (half a year after the last response...), yet i've got totally hyped by this game's lore.

Assuming what the OP said is right, i want to continue this in a logical way, including what Roboent said before: One should focus on the entire plot, not just the tiny piece of obvious lore one gets, the meta-narrative being no exclusion.

So, my theory is: What if we, the players, are Hastur? With Hastur's goal being to create an ICEY with an self?
See, it was already pointed out Jack resembles a prototype ICEY, and he wanted himself to be the Choosen One. Yet ICEY became the vessel for Hastur (e. g. the player), not Jack, thus the reskinned pre-ICEY turned agressive in order to become the Choosen One, and the rest is knows.
Yet, my interpetation of the events after Jack are different: You noticed that visual effect of an Eye watching ICEY and that other guy? And in generall, all other screens with Eyes on them watching ICEY? The always appear in places significantly shaping ICEY's later self. What if these monitors are Hastur? We, the player, watching her every step she takes?
Not even the narrator (himself a character of the game, as hementoned himself) has full control over what's happening. Only one person with the true power of a god is able to rule everything. Only the player.
Furthermore, the Master is having 9 billion names, right? Althought this point is more far-off than the rest: Soon, there will be 9 billion humans on this world, each of them a possible player. And hey, of our currently 7 bil., how many migth have multiple names?

This turned into another wall of text, and i know my thoughts are not in order, and probably extremly confusing, but i think carefully reading this will make clear into which direction i've been thinking.

Cheers, and sorry for the necro.

I love your theory that we the player are Hastur, that does cleanly connect a lot of what I thought were missing pieces. Assuming everything else I said is correct to a degree, I think you may have it all figured out. Cheers to you man. I may make this into a video at some point (with due credit of course) assuming the interest is there. For now I'm accepting your theory as plausably correct. Thank you so much for contributing, and im glad you love the game as much as I do.
Totenheim 1 Feb, 2018 @ 6:53am 
Awesome thread guys. The plot left me flabbergasted when the Hastur references started to appear and after playing + reading these speculations I am still wondering so many stuff...
Centur1on01 11 Feb, 2018 @ 8:47pm 
ICEY was when I first noticed that game developers have increased the difficuly of their games.
Lifeland 24 Nov, 2018 @ 1:01pm 
I think I actually understand the story now! Essentaly:
A software firm named fantablade made a World for AI. (indicated by the about I and the readme file, and some scientists from the AI world found this out, and went mad. They declared the people of the real world "HASTUR", and were worried about their very existence. Judas proposed to make something to connect them with the outiside world, a game of sorts, this game being ICEY. The Chosen one is the player charecter, and asending to the heavanly throne might mean something about becoming popular in our world or whatever. building off of what a lot of you said, I think that the observer that is mentioned several times is Leeroy Rogers. (The narrorator's real name) It would probably make sense that he is the observer because of his constant insistance for the player to stay on the predefined path. (more on that later) The scientists probably modified their world to become the world of the game. I'm guessing that he was the scientist put in charge of making the game, but as he had no experience in making the game, the team were disgrunteled by his orders, as seen in the marionette theatre. It is also mentioned that if the observer gains a "self" then their memories must be wiped. Think back-how many of the runs ended after the narrorator started acting differently than he was supposed to? And after each run, does he remember anything? This is why he is so angry in the true ending. he realises that his memories have been wiped again, and again, trapping him in a limbo. Anyway, I digress on the narrorator for now. Remeber that "Path" from earlier? well, if ICEY is the chosen one and must not stray from that path, then it is probbably the path that was mentioned along with the observer. Due to all the religious dialouge, one might think that the "path" is some religious training, but it is the literal path to Judas the narrorator expects us to follow.
What do you guys think? I think this fits well with your theories.
Zesc 24 Nov, 2018 @ 1:26pm 
Originally posted by lifeland:
*snip*
Now i like you're way of thinking, but i personally think you're exaggerating that whole "Meta" thing a bit to much.

Also, there are some flaws with your theory:
  • According to th description of the steam background (whether that is canon or not), the observer is called "Wendy" and was authroized by "Anonymous". No Leeroy Rodgers.
  • Hastur appears in the game as an entity that is not the player. Remember that uncanny scene after Jack? Yeah.
  • I don't remember the true ending exactly, but didn't the observer even madea report at the very end, with ICEY (and a thrid party, eventually the player) intervening?
  • Interestingly enough, althougth the narrator has some control over the game world (or atleast believes he does), all his actions are actually aimed to keep ICEY down. He seems less araid of memory reset than of her gaining sapience. Pay attention how he downrigth slags her and the player of when they attempt to, well... not be a puppet.

Also, last but not least, hearing you call many things here "religious stories", i assume you are not familiar with the backstory. "Carcosa" and "Hastur" are characters/places created by Robert W. Chambers and later addapted by Derleth and H.P.Lovecraft in their respective works. You may want to do soem research on these topics, not just to understand the game better.
Lifeland 24 Nov, 2018 @ 1:41pm 
Thanks for pointing out those flaws. That yellow guy also appears in the ending of the UCEY's awakening DLC. His appearence was accompanied by Leeroy Rogers talking backwards. To my knowlege, no one has reversed that yet. I'm willing to bet that might be important.
Zesc 24 Nov, 2018 @ 2:03pm 
Originally posted by lifeland:
Thanks for pointing out those flaws. That yellow guy also appears in the ending of the UCEY's awakening DLC. His appearence was accompanied by Leeroy Rogers talking backwards. To my knowlege, no one has reversed that yet. I'm willing to bet that might be important.
"Great one Assatur! Hear the devout twin's prayer. May the dark star rise as usual."

Digged that up in these forums.Dunno if it is chinese translated to english, or the actual english ver, but i guess that doesn't matters.

Another Cthulhu Mythos reference, as far as i can tell. I must dig out that special line about the dark star(s), too sad i mostly own tranlsations of HPLs works, not the original english versions.

To be honest, that whole UCEY/ICEY thing is scaring me, since it is one of the aspects of the game i didn't fully understood. Help me recapping this:

So, that laboratory (is it conencted to the other parts we find scattered, especially in the metro and the clock tower) created a thign names UCEY. Later, they also created ICEY. Is UCEY ICEY's protype? Or are they the same rig, with ICEY being the "choosen" version? For me, it seems like someone at that laboratory has a Zescian idea of "it sounds that moronic it migth work". You got a prophecy or whatever telling of a "Choosen One"? Just start pumping out Gynoids matching her description, hoping that one will eventually be said Choosen One. Ties well into the aforementioned fact that Jack seems to be a prototype ICEY.

Also... what if Carcosa is the Black Star? As far as we can tell, that place, comparable to "the paradise" is an existing place, and Judas tries to reach it, using the what he read in the Necronomicon. And in his last moments, he understand. What if this process of understanding is causally linked to the black star rising?

And why, for Hastur's sake, are we supposed to jump inot waste three times?
Lifeland 24 Nov, 2018 @ 2:12pm 
as far as I can understand, UCEY is refered to as another project by the people who are manipulating ICEY, as evidenced by the text at the end of the true ending and DLC. I'm willing to bet that ICEY and UCEY are acronyms for their respective projects, judging by the fact that they are all caps. It is scary how meta this is, as one is the base game and the other is the DLC. In most scenarios, the devs would have just made it an update.
Last edited by Lifeland; 24 Nov, 2018 @ 2:14pm
Zesc 24 Nov, 2018 @ 2:30pm 
Originally posted by lifeland:
as far as I can understand, UCEY is refered to as another project by the people who are manipulating ICEY, as evidenced by the text at the end of the true ending and DLC. I'm willing to bet that ICEY and UCEY are acronyms for their respective projects, judging by the fact that they are all caps. It is scary how meta this is, as one is the base game and the other is the DLC. In most scenarios, the devs would have just made it an update.
Hate to crush your dreams (actually i don't), but it's not that unusual for developers to add free add-ons as DLCs to their game. Yes, you could probably handle it seperately, but since i ahevn't published anything on steam so far, i can't tell how they handle this, just that i've seen similar.

Back to the main topic... They can very well be Acronyms, but keep in mind how they can be intepreted aswell: "i see" and "you see".

Also, if you migth have realized: when the narrator shows ICEY the truth about herself, the name above the healthbar changes to "UCEY". (Just as it later changes to your steam name). This implies ICEY is an UCEY frame of sorts. However, i do not understand how UCEY could then have been killed by ICEY.

As i said, that part is making me insane. The OP made a theory on this, but it is sporting gaping holes. ICEY is not a vessel, it reather seems like she (the I™ System) is rather being educated in a meta-context to the already existing metastory of the game. I doubt she is a vessel for Hastur, since she directly interacts with him (and has to learn his name, aswell).
Lifeland 24 Nov, 2018 @ 2:43pm 
Originally posted by Zesc7:
but it's not that unusual for developers to add free add-ons as DLCs to their game. Yes, you could probably handle it seperately, but since i ahevn't published anything on steam so far, i can't tell how they handle this, just that i've seen similar.
All the times I've seen free dlc, it usually doesn't add someting critical like an direct expansion to the plotline or the english voiceover. Anyway, I just remembered something that seemed unimportant until a second ago-the landscape is littered with ICEY corpses. The metro area is full of corpses like these, and while I don't totally remember, I think there were a few in the forest area. One of these other "ICEY"s might have been responsible.
Zesc 24 Nov, 2018 @ 2:56pm 
Originally posted by lifeland:
All the times I've seen free dlc, it usually doesn't add someting critical like an direct expansion to the plotline or the english voiceover. Anyway, I just remembered something that seemed unimportant until a second ago-the landscape is littered with ICEY corpses. The metro area is full of corpses like these, and while I don't totally remember, I think there were a few in the forest area. One of these other "ICEY"s might have been responsible.
Oh... there are even new ones spawning at certain points in the game.

However, the meaning of this can range from none, as in "Oh, she died... let's build a new body" to "Yeah, we just created a bunch of those hoping to accidentially make one the Chosen one", which would support my theory that all those are just other rigs that eventually died.

Also, when, whoever is doing this, has no issue memory-wiping the Narrator, why should they have an issue eleminating an UCEY if they get devious?

This makes me think about a thing... what if the goal is to not have a sapient ICEY? All those before were reaching that level of selfawareness at which "they" didn't wanted them to see, and disposed them? Only "our" ICEY could, being the Chosen One, make it this far? Without the intervention of the Player/Hastur/Whatever, she would have ended up like all those other rigs... makes me remember what was said about Ideon... And isn't his self-awareness the main motive behind Judas to do all this? Seems like a good reason to deny any other characters to reach sapience.

This is a very interesting topic... I'm going to sleep now, but i'll gladly contine discussing tomorow. I hope you can wait.:icey_redhead:

Oh, by the way: Close Your Eyes added, as far as i can tell, Girl's Graveyard as a free DLC to it. Which is more crucial to the entire series' lore than the base game, i'd say. Just to mention one example.
Lifeland 24 Nov, 2018 @ 8:50pm 
I've started reading The king in yellow, (I'm about halfway through) and let me say, your theories on Jack show him as a perfect reflection of Hildred. The refrences to masks, black stars and all that make sence with the book as well. I haven't seen any relation to a "path" yet, which makes me still think that the "path" in question is the judas path in the game.
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