The Red Strings Club

The Red Strings Club

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Bluejayd 27 Jul, 2024 @ 8:21pm
Pretense of philosophical wisdom...
I've only just met Larissa and already the game has made several very broad statements about philosophical matters. Some of these statements are based on partial logic, some of them on seemingly no logic. Obviously you can't cover every bit of a topic in one conversation, but if this is supposed to be a high minded exercise in philosophy, you'd think the dev would:
1) draw no conclusions at all, because OBVIOUSLY you should not be drawing conclusions FOR your philosophy "students".
2) consider these very broad and deep questions beyond one. simple. hypothetical argument.
3) at least make logical sense on a basic level.

The marketing debate for example. The game DECLARES that marketing is inherently evil, which is a natural, but sophomoric conclusion. It shouldn't take much thought to realize that without marketing, people would be ignorant of many things that might help them. Without marketing, technology, and any other form of invention, would only spread by word of mouth. Sure, a slower advance of technology is what we desperately need right now, but freedom of information is vitally important to equality. If there are new solutions that can help people, is it not their benefit to learn about them?

Donovan even says that marketing is only evil if it involves lies. The game's answer to this is that marketing almost always lies... even ignoring that incredibly broad simplification, that keyword ALMOST negates the whole "inherent" thing, doesn't it? It can't be inherently wrong if only most cases are wrong.


The question on whether companies "have the right" (whatever that means) to modify their technology after purchase also really aggravated me. If you say that purchasing something gives you ownership over it, Akara responds with, "Does paying for something grant you the rights to do whatever you want with it?" As if that has anything to do with what she asked... The question was about the company's rights, not the customer...

Donovan replies, "As long as it doesn't affect other people, yes. Or at least, something you purchased shouldn't turn in (nice typo dev) something you don't want." Akara chooses to IGNORE the second statement, and take the first one completely literally. She once again shoots down a strawman, and "refutes" his argument by saying that "everything we do affects other people... So the idea that possession grants indefinite rights over something sounds flawed." WHO TF SAID "INDEFINITE"? WHO TF IS TALKING ABOUT THE CUSTOMER'S RIGHTS?

This debate was about "whether or not a corporation can modify technology that you've already purchased without your consent", and the conclusion reached by the game dev is that "customers shouldn't have the right to do LITERALLY ANYTHING with the things they purchase"... not only is that an utterly obvious statement to make, it's got nothing to do with the topic, and yet the dev seems to think that he just educated us...

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'll be taking any philosophical "conclusions" this game provides with a some salt.
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ArmaLittle 10 Dec, 2024 @ 7:03am 
I get it, I also felt like saying "but..." to the game at point, like when Akara was asking me what she should limit or allow and I couldn't defend why I chose some matters over others.

However, I don't think you have to align with whatever the game presents, nor does it have to offer only open-ended questions without counter-stances.
I don't think this is a debate class, we aren't gonna argue with the developers about the different matters that get brought up.
I believe it would require a fundamental change in how the game progresses for that to be the case and it would be a different game, which maybe you'd have enjoyed more.
I don't always agreed with the options or the way Donovan argued his postures in the game, but I respect that the game isn't exactly about me but about Donovan and Brandeis who are their own people with their own flawed or incomplete logic which other characters also point at some times the same way you can do.

At the end of the day, I think that the point of the game is getting you to think about these matters, not to swallow what you could assume to be the stance of the developer through some character. If you don't agree with them fine, if you think they're simplifying things too much go ahead and point that out, argue and flesh out the subjects the game presents.

About the examples you put as well, I think you could try to consider that characters sometimes don't understand each other or word things properly, just like people do over discussions. Akara is an AI, that strawman you say could pretty much just be a misunderstanding since Donovan didn't specify what he meant by affecting others.
I also believe that Akara is more so genuinely interested in hearing what Donovan thinks, rather than in having some sort of debate. She brings out "buts" when something doesn't fully fit or seems flawed, which is why I believe that she understands what Donovan answers wrongly.

On a similar note, I think you may not have understood where the discussion was going when the marketing question popped. Marketing is a very wide element and it clearly has uses, purpose and dangers. I got the impression while playing that the question was aimed more at the persuasion-manipulation side that marketing has, which can be used to deceive others. Keep also in mind that the game's setting is a dystopian future where marketing and consumerism may not be like they're in our own setting. You may dismiss Akara's statement that good marketing is dishonest and evil, but it's not a statement about our world, it's about hers and it might also be flawed since she is using her own logic to judge what good marketing is and what makes a marketing technique morally okay.

You're free to make the game whatever you like, if a philosophy class doesn't really feel right to you, maybe try seeing it through a different lens.
Whether you're looking for entertaiment or education, I doubt you're gonna find any of it if you decide to take things with a grain of salt from now on.
I'm aware you've probably finished this game at this point long ago, so all I can say is that I hope you're able to find ways to experience other future games that are more enriching to you. My personal advice, if you care, is to give it the most possitive outlook you can. Even if that's innacurate you may still get the nicest thing from it for yourself and I personally think that's for the better when it comes to oneself.
Knight 10 Dec, 2024 @ 1:16pm 
You made a tryhard post on this, and I applaud it.

But still you're right.

For those of you who were too intimidated by the blocks of text... If I were to tldr what the op is saying, he's saying that the moral philosophy of the story is that "We think this is evil and aren't really able to argue when questioned on it."

The dumbest people I've talked to think they're objectively right in philosophy, and that's probably why this game seemed so dumb. In fact, I'd even wager this game stressed out the writer to the point where they might've come up to a realization their feelings were wrong.

And that might also be why the game feels so lifeless and meaningless.

It feels like the game got rushed. And the final product already feels small and cheap.
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