I would say that RNG is managable, even at times it does throw your something really nasty (like no good weapons in reward selection).

As for saving, it happens every turn, so I wouldn't worry about it. Length of runs greatly depends on how long you think on your moves.

Originally posted by Loot Hunter:

I would say that RNG is managable, even at times it does throw your something really nasty (like no good weapons in reward selection).

As for saving, it happens every turn, so I wouldn't worry about it. Length of runs greatly depends on how long you think on your moves.

I like Enter The Gungeon, because I can feasibly win every run. Can you feasibly win every single run of Into The Breach? I believe luck should influence variety of runs, but not their ultimate outcome. Enter The Gungeon is cool, because there are basically no "unusuable" or fully "trash" items. (almost) Everything you acquire is a tool that you can use effectively in some way.

Originally posted by Mystique:

Everything you acquire is a tool that you can use effectively in some way.

Yes, but the problem with ITB is that that way may not be compatible with your strategy on the current run. Like, when you want to go pure damage but get some debuff weapons instead. Or vice versa.

Originally posted by Mystique:

Can you feasibly win every single run of Into The Breach?

Theoretically, yes. If you were to know every map and every weapon given to you (so you wouldn't waste rewards on things you'll get just a battle or two later). But without precognition, I would say you can win *most* runs.

If you play on easy or normal you can expect to win 95% of your runs once you get to know the mechanics and weapons.

It feels like a chill puzzle game.

Originally posted by Hipnox:

If you play on easy or normal you can expect to win 95% of your runs once you get to know the mechanics and weapons.

It feels like a chill puzzle game.

how long are the runs? Is there mid-run saving?

The game instantly saves your progress every time a weapon is fired or you end the turn - you're always free to quit the game and return back exactly where you were.

However, if you get a Game Over, you can't reload an earlier save midway through the run - your run is over and you will have to start a new one. In that sense, this game is rogue-like.

The time-length of a run depends on how long you spend analyzing each turn, what difficulty you have the game set to, and how many islands you complete; I'd expect Easy or Normal runs to take about an hour and change, Hard runs to take two hours and change, and Unfair mode runs to take multiple sessions.

I'd say though, it's very different than those other games you listed. It's basically a puzzle game with a mech combat skin overlaying. For me, most of the mechanics hit the same part of my brain as chess does - highly positional, lots of branching cause & effect decisions without RNG, etc. It's pretty unique.

Originally posted by Dire Wombat:

I'd say though, it's very different than those other games you listed. It's basically a puzzle game with a mech combat skin overlaying. For me, most of the mechanics hit the same part of my brain as chess does - highly positional, lots of branching cause & effect decisions without RNG, etc. It's pretty unique.

Sounds really awesome and enticing, but man am I just not ready to believe another roguelite. There are so many incredible games hidden in so many roguelites I have played that are just desperately clawing for air. If this game had an actual campaign with levels that nullified all RNG and just honed in and handcrafted the puzzles, I would be all over this game!

The map layouts and individual objectives are handcrafted, but the spawned enemies are RNG (with some constraints on them to e.g. make sure only a maximum number of elite enemies can spawn). The way enemies decide what to attack is also RNG to an extent too.

However, enemy attack behavior and your own weapons' effects are fully deterministic.

You might possibly prefer the upcoming game Tactical Breach Wizards, which seems to fit your description much better (not a roguelike, linear campaign with handcrafted levels, pre-set enemies and positions).

However, you could always watch videos of this game and think about whether you would enjoy playing it. It might be more fun than you initially thought. Or not, everyone has their own tastes.

If you played the creator's last game and thought it was too random and unfair with luck and RNG then I think you will find this a pleasant suprise. The game has incredibly low randomness and everything is mostly predictable allowing you to dissect it. In many ways this game is a randomized puzzle and only on rare occasions will you be given an unsolvable one. (especially if you play on the lower difficulties.)

Originally posted by Mystique:

Sounds really awesome and enticing, but man am I just not ready to believe another roguelite. There are so many incredible games hidden in so many roguelites I have played that are just desperately clawing for air. If this game had an actual campaign with levels that nullified all RNG and just honed in and handcrafted the puzzles, I would be all over this game!

I meant that most of those games you mentioned - Gungeon, Hades, Binding of Isaac, Roboquest - are action/arcade games. Literally the only major similarity is the roguelike meta progression between runs, of which Into The Breach has a relatively small amount of. Otherwise completely different genres. Also Enter the Gungeon has far more RNG than Into the Breach.

Not really sure what you want out of this thread tho. People described it and you reply it sounds "really awesome and enticing" but that you're just "not ready to believe" it's worth buying, and moved the goalposts to "nullified RNG" and only handcrafted puzzles? Whatever floats your boat I guess.

You probably wouldn't like this one, considering you seem to dislike even some of the best ones in the genre like STS and the one you do like (Gungeon) is more action-oriented.

Into the breach is about extremely tight tactical gameplay. And when I say extremely, it's extremely. Even on normal difficulty, you WILL struggle to find the optimal play in a lot of situations. There usually is one, the game is not necessarily RNG-reliant (although first turns at the beginning of runs can do you dirty sometimes), but the balance is so tight that the difference between victory and loss often relies on you finding that one unconventional perfect play. It's a game that's really good at reliably putting you on the edge of defeat and forcing you to make the most out of a bad situation, and rewarding you for thinking out of the box.

In a lot of situations you will face an absolutely devastating turn, convinced that loss is the only option and the game actually RNG-owned you, only to find out after 5mn of brainstorming that there is a perfect solution to the turn if you put X mech on Y tile and fire at one specific spot in the scenery instead of trying to shoot at the opponent. You have to periodically unlearn how you approach your fights so that you can pay attention to ways to win that you're not used to or that are situation-specific.

Definitely a game to go for if you like tactical in general, like advance wars or lunatic mode fire emblem games.

While the game IS a tactical marvel and not really RNG-reliant, it definitely is aimless, and slightly lacking in content. You basically just redo the same scenario with the same 5 islands with randomly generated variations of the same missions over and over while trying out new mechs that open new tactical opportunities, the game relies on you liking the gameplay, there's no scenario to speak of.

The fights themselves are always fresh because the placement and race of the opponents, the layout of the land, and the composition of your own team is never the same, but everything else is a bit same-y in the long run, so it all boils down to liking the challenge.

I would argue ITB's randomly generated puzzles are better than handcrafted games, because every single situation is on-point and doesn't feel too easy or impossible to beat. Every single turn in a campaign will have you struggle and think hard like a handcrafted puzzle would, and since it's not handcrafted, you can infinitely replay.

Oh yeah I completely agreed on RNG stuff. There's something about try your hardest to win and the game just fold in on itself and be like "better luck next time". Feel like I'm wasting my time and what not. Slay the Spire has my most gripe on, even tho I really like that game.
ITB tho is a puzzle generator game. It never have that Rouge-Like unfaireness from my play time. You know what in each Island, You know the Vek, You know squad's can and can't.
It's the kind of game where the moment to moment gameplay carried iteself.
So it's more of a "is puzzle game is your jam" kind of thing. Dead Cell, Gungeon, ITB they're just fun game to pick up a controller and play. The RNG just there to keep the game fresh.

The only "RNG" is the setup for the levels and which enemies you will get. After that it's AI behaviour, not RNG (it's different. Your opponent in chess also isn't "RNG".). And every turn itself, which is 99% strategy based, it's a perfect information game. You know everyone's health, everyone's damage, everyone's next attack, the terrain and all environmental factors.

EDIT: The're is one RNG element in it, but it's a 15%-30% chance for an "extra life". Generally you just assume that it doesn't proc. If it does, you'll get a free breather.

Its not even a roguelite dude...