I rarely play the game anymore, because of this exact reason. Just "playing the game" doesn't seem to be a thing anymore.

The rush of executions, the constant insults whenever someone doesn't play the game how someone else wants them to etc., make me wanna abandon this really cool game. Or in short - the community makes me feel like that.

As one of uncountable examples - there once was a really annoying player (turned out to be a BD member), who spammed that chat with nonsense, most of time in CAPS. Day 2, i told them to finally shut up (i was the Sheriff or Paladin). The guy accused me and most of the players followed. I sent my obviously correct logs (because BD) and got executed, very clearly, almost everyone voted "execute".

After realizing that they killed a very important member of the BD, my death was followed by various insults towards me. "♥♥♥♥ logs" was quite harmless compared to the other stuff.

Sadly, this wasn't an exception and i don't think the problem are new players. At least not for the major part.

I think most of the players are young teenagers, some of them haven't reached the developmental stage where they actually think about what other people say. They just believe and zealously defend the first thing anyone tells them.

Meta didn't fry any brains.
The way I see it there weren't any to begin with.
I'm probably going to draw a lot of agro just by saying this, but ToL the way I originally knew it (the whisper king meta times) was never a brain-powered game to begin with.

To actually involve thought process in a game people need something to think about.
Whisper meta and several other factors robbed them of that opportunity.

From where I'm standing your observation is a proof that this game is moving in the right direction, but also proof that it's not there yet.
It's not new stupidity, it's the old stupidity made bare.

As for aggressive executions it's simple – this game is not set up to allow leniency.
Investigative power of bd is woefully insufficient most of the time, and conversion mechanics this game is based on only adds fuel to that fire.
As a result BD that doesn't execute aggressively simply doesn't stand a reasonable chance of finding evil in time.

Compare reactions to possible scorned or executioner in ToL and ToS respectively for just one example. (Although you need to understand that a large part of this specific example is due to differences between executioner and scorned.)

Postponed executions are a lot more common in ToS (or at least they were last time I checked) than in ToL.

Part of it is because ToS gives a larger guaranteed number of investigative roles.
And part of it is because of ToL's conversion shenanigans – a value of having a proven BD around is a lot less than the value of proven town, because that “poof” only lasts till next conversion night. As such clearing someone of suspicion is a lot less important than finding new suspects.

It's not a good way for a game to be set up, imho, but still is the only right way to play the game that is set up like this.

Hopefully developers will realize that and include more guaranteed investigative roles. But don't hold your breath. Just getting rid of whisper meta alone took ages.

P.S. Without examples of “some nonsensical thing” and without a copy of the logs that were called bad, you guys don't exactly sound credible. Considering the kind of game we're playing and the kind of people who play it, you sound downright deceptive like this.

Granted, I've seen examples of such mis-happenings in-game. But the actual cases of them are lot more rare than the cases of people insisting that they were mislynched “for no good reason”.

As such people claiming that it's the norm don't exactly sound credible.

In my experience accusations of “♥♥♥♥ logs” are more often correct than wrong.
And while bd are exe-happy and prone to cattle-like behavior, most (I repeat, MOST, not all) executions around still happen for viable reasons.
Not the “100% proven to be evil” kind of viable, but the “high enough chance of evil to statistically justify executing for this” kind of viable.

If all other arguments fail ask yourself this – why does it happen to you most of the time but doesn't happen to me most of the time?

I don't know how many executions are "rushed" but sometimes people just cannot see their own mistakes that got them the chop.

1. MM who claimed phys on D6 after 2 phys and 1 alch already outted before him.
2. Reaper who got occupied by Butler that night but failed to make any note of it in his fake logs.

Both claimed that there was no reason to exe them, that their death was a "rando" exe.
Sheah right.

Honestly I think ToS created the problem of braindead. Least in my memory of ToS (not sure if they fixed it), but in short with competent town it wasn't even worth trying as an evil. (mid elo had an 80% town winrate, and climbed higher the further you go)...

Main thing is, making it so it isn't super stressed with average run of the mill players... means making it insta win in a competent group. Though in both games I'd also have to say investigatives are a double edged sword when it comes to balance (while they are the most helpful for spotting evils, they are also the best claim space for evils).

Originally posted by Vandalay:

Though in both games I'd also have to say investigatives are a double edged sword when it comes to balance (while they are the most helpful for spotting evils, they are also the best claim space for evils).

Both of those "edges" only serve as a good reason to have more investigatives.

IIRC most of the changes that killed ToS ( for me that is ) were caused by them trying so hard to rebalance that winrate. (Which is an idiotic idea, 3 people out of 15 shouldn't be winning 50% of the time.) And the main direction their effort took was re-balancing claim space.

Just to be extra clear, yeah having more claim space for evil IS a good idea for a game like this, it's just that they went about it in a very DUMB way, they took a crapton of their classes out of their flagship game mode to do so, which was completely uncalled for.

And the other point is - it's not about good vs evil winrate it's about what you do with it.
80% is definitely too much, but other than that, what should matter is how plausible it is to shift that winrate on an player-by-player basis. You should be getting lower personal winrates if you're bad and higher if you're good at specific role types. That's what skill in games like this is about. We can't possibly have perfect faction winrate balance in a game with such a spreadout faction population distribution.

And don't even get me started on how NKs fit into this whole winrate idiocy.