Also in Town of Salem there is random lynching

whats with the reveal early logs!?
Why reveal all

Originally posted by probo_:

For new players it will be harrowing. Basically as a player with 400+ hours in the game I get really annoyed by people who don't have clean, good-looking logs. I have sometimes executed people on general principle because they had terrible looking logs and almost every time it's some bd that just doesn't know how to play the game yet.

Just make sure to write everything in the logs. like

Sheriff
d1. scout 12
n1. invest 10, redirected to 5 NS
d2. scout 14
n2. invest 6 prevented (Unseen visited 14)

There are many variations of this but it should be clear what happened. Obviously it's gonna take more than 10 games to get a hang of it, but it is possible to up people for having bad looking logs if it isn't clear what you have been doing.

However there is also a gargantuan bias towards execution, especially in games with less skilled players it seems. So probably 80%+ you are going to die if you are ever upped.

BD needs to actually take A LOT of chances in order to win. You almost never *know* that someone is evil, but you have a suspicion, and then you go from there.

A lot of new players might also not realize that in order to win the BD *has* to up people, if they want to wait until it's 100% clear that someone is guilty before they up that person, they are going to lose.

I wouldn't really recommend writing sheriff logs like that unless you don't exepect to live till endgame. It takes up alot of space making separate lines for days and nights.

Personally my preferred methods for different classes are:

Sheriff -

N1 - Scout X, Invest X
N2 - Invest Y
N3 - Scout Z, Invest Z
------------------------------------
Observer -

N1 - Follow Y = X > Y > Z
------------------------------------
Drunk -

N1 - Deb(auch) X > Y
------------------------------------
Prince

N1 - Jail X (Next Page ->) X - Sheriff Claim

i hate observer logs like that XD you couldnt type visited, visited by? just my opinion. And I make pretty lazy logs.

For sheriff logs i put days1-4 scout 10
n1
n2
n3
n4 etc etc.

Originally posted by Marik B.:

This game is too chaotic, honestly. It's not really a true deductive game.

It depends on what you consider to be a "true detective game". Some consider investigation games to be like Ace Attorney, where you get unlimited time to go through your material and find the contradiction.

Looking at the time given per day, I don't think this game was meant to be "true detective" in the aforementioned sense. Time is very limited and not only that, you have people badgering you, actively distracting you and burying useful info with useless text.

You want somebody's info?
They might just refuse.
There's no special item, no "someone you must talk to first' to unlock their dialogue.
They are not NPCs. Every suspect is a human being.
In a game, they give you all the information you need to be a detective. You have all it takes to win.
In ToL, you don't get all the info. You get a bag of bs to sift through. And you have limited time.
So again, ToL is not a true detective game in this sense.

So what do you do?
I don't have the absolute answer, but if you're in the game, you participate.
You analyse as much information as you can.
You build alliances.
E.g. I swap this player with this player. Next morning I ask him, anything happened to you? He says someone tried to occupy him, but they failed. I make a note that a butler's target was changed. I tell him I'm a Cw (relatively unimportant Bd class, so I risked it). He says he's a drunk. He tells me to keep empowering him. If he dies, I'm busted. Okay. Every night he debs someone onto himself. If he gets attacked, he will survive and we will have a lead the next morning.
All this set up without the king's involvement.

It's a "social" deduction game after all, so I assume that means that communication should not be limited to the royal duo (King + Prince).
They are not solely responsible for the game's win or loss.
Unlike mystery or detective games, they are not the protagonist. Everyone is a protagonist. Everyone should investigate because no single player is blessed with all the info.

Players who watch Youtube while playing this or just kick back and relax while being Hunter are playing it wrong, imo.

Sometimes when a player gets executed, they might think "Why was I executed?".
They don't think: "Why did each of those individuals press Execute? What was their individual reason?"
When executed unfairly, we tend to see the situation as "Me vs Them". They victimised me.
But I don't think that's accurate. Because there is no real "them". Every player is fighting for survival and the reasons why they voted execute on someone can vary greatly.

Maybe they don't like your speech, they think you are deliberately sabotaging the investigation by acting like a Fool.
>So the reason lies in the difference between your personalities, even though you meant no offense with your words.

Maybe they trust the guy that provided evidence against you.
>So you failed to build trust with these particular persons. Maybe your accuser whispered them more often. They exchanged info more than you did. Maybe the accuser gives insightful comments throughout the trial so the momentum carried when he attacked your alibi which was actually solid.

Maybe they got spooked, were surrounded by evils and just slammed Execute.
>Then they are either inexperienced or could not trust anyone throughout the game. Their error needs to be explained calmly after the game or next time, the player could talk to more people to ensure no one feels too isolated and paranoid. A little whisper day after day can do wonders.

Just because info says you are evil and should die doesn't mean you will die. A game played with real humans is not binary.

P.S. You probably have more hours than me so I might have sounded pretentious saying all this, but I felt I had to say it to those who keep saying that the community players aren't good enough detectives.

A lot of luck is involved when using abilities, etc. But the same was true for tos. I've seen some pro kings, and princes knock it out, and deduce the whole game. The problem I see is BD can make too many mistakes and still win, I think unseen need a buff. Cult however seems to be ok.

Killing a few good BD doesn't hurt too much especially if for sure identifying if they are BD or not gives you the info you need to narrow down who might be the MM.

The bad part of this game is that there are a lot of trash players who multi-task and don't pay attention. Example: I just had a game where I stated 3x in chat I was poisioned (and NK is dead). Prince Jails me on King's orders. Prince says he didn't see where I said I was poisioned. King said the same thing. We exe King because obviously he's EK... nope was good king and just didn't pay attention chat.

That's the kind of garbage player that pisses me off.

Originally posted by sauurman:

Killing a few good BD doesn't hurt too much especially if for sure identifying if they are BD or not gives you the info you need to narrow down who might be the MM.

The bad part of this game is that there are a lot of trash players who multi-task and don't pay attention. Example: I just had a game where I stated 3x in chat I was poisioned (and NK is dead). Prince Jails me on King's orders. Prince says he didn't see where I said I was poisioned. King said the same thing. We exe King because obviously he's EK... nope was good king and just didn't pay attention chat.

That's the kind of garbage player that pisses me off.

Yes but then the BD will still win ._. and even though unseen trying they still lose.

Well it is 'expected' that BD win which is what makes playing evil fun and challenging. I just wish people would actually read the chat and play. Its like playing a team sport with half your team watching the cheerleaders instead of playing the freaken game.

Making completely awful plays or admitting to afking or not paying attention isn't even an offense that can get you suspended but calling a trash player trash does... /boggle

Originally posted by YaBoyRandy:

ALSO: this game is neither a detective NOR deductive game at present; rather, all you do now is whisper logs to king--good or evil--and wait your turn to get upped. there are no other types of interactions which can influence gameplay or game direction--so many games where the only thing in chatbox EVERY DAY is purple--unless you are lucky enough to be king or prince.

I mean there are a few things you can do, and deductions to be made, for example someone whispers king, and king ups cult, and you are alch you know who to heal ;)

But for the most part yes, It is throne of luck.

Originally posted by YaBoyRandy:

Originally posted by SereneK:

It depends on what you consider to be a "true detective game". Some consider investigation games to be like Ace Attorney, where you get unlimited time to go through your material and find the contradiction.

Looking at the time given per day, I don't think this game was meant to be "true detective" in the aforementioned sense. Time is very limited and not only that, you have people badgering you, actively distracting you and burying useful info with useless text.

You want somebody's info?
They might just refuse.
There's no special item, no "someone you must talk to first' to unlock their dialogue.
They are not NPCs. Every suspect is a human being.
In a game, they give you all the information you need to be a detective. You have all it takes to win.
In ToL, you don't get all the info. You get a bag of bs to sift through. And you have limited time.
So again, ToL is not a true detective game in this sense.

So what do you do?
I don't have the absolute answer, but if you're in the game, you participate.
You analyse as much information as you can.
You build alliances.
E.g. I swap this player with this player. Next morning I ask him, anything happened to you? He says someone tried to occupy him, but they failed. I make a note that a butler's target was changed. I tell him I'm a Cw (relatively unimportant Bd class, so I risked it). He says he's a drunk. He tells me to keep empowering him. If he dies, I'm busted. Okay. Every night he debs someone onto himself. If he gets attacked, he will survive and we will have a lead the next morning.
All this set up without the king's involvement.

It's a "social" deduction game after all, so I assume that means that communication should not be limited to the royal duo (King + Prince).
They are not solely responsible for the game's win or loss.
Unlike mystery or detective games, they are not the protagonist. Everyone is a protagonist. Everyone should investigate because no single player is blessed with all the info.

Players who watch Youtube while playing this or just kick back and relax while being Hunter are playing it wrong, imo.

Sometimes when a player gets executed, they might think "Why was I executed?".
They don't think: "Why did each of those individuals press Execute? What was their individual reason?"
When executed unfairly, we tend to see the situation as "Me vs Them". They victimised me.
But I don't think that's accurate. Because there is no real "them". Every player is fighting for survival and the reasons why they voted execute on someone can vary greatly.

Maybe they don't like your speech, they think you are deliberately sabotaging the investigation by acting like a Fool.
>So the reason lies in the difference between your personalities, even though you meant no offense with your words.

Maybe they trust the guy that provided evidence against you.
>So you failed to build trust with these particular persons. Maybe your accuser whispered them more often. They exchanged info more than you did. Maybe the accuser gives insightful comments throughout the trial so the momentum carried when he attacked your alibi which was actually solid.

Maybe they got spooked, were surrounded by evils and just slammed Execute.
>Then they are either inexperienced or could not trust anyone throughout the game. Their error needs to be explained calmly after the game or next time, the player could talk to more people to ensure no one feels too isolated and paranoid. A little whisper day after day can do wonders.

Just because info says you are evil and should die doesn't mean you will die. A game played with real humans is not binary.

P.S. You probably have more hours than me so I might have sounded pretentious saying all this, but I felt I had to say it to those who keep saying that the community players aren't good enough detectives.

hahaha dude misread one word and really ran with it.
if you look at what you yourself quoted, you'll see he didn't say "detective;" he said "deductive."

your poor reading skills resulted in a whole tangent, starting from a point no one was making, contributing nothing to the discussion besides airing your "know-it-all, thinks SO MUCH" image you're so desparately attempting to throw down everyone's throats when you interact with them.



ALSO: this game is neither a detective NOR deductive game at present; rather, all you do now is whisper logs to king--good or evil--and wait your turn to get upped. there are no other types of interactions which can influence gameplay or game direction--so many games where the only thing in chatbox EVERY DAY is purple--unless you are lucky enough to be king or prince.

He makes some good points.

Where as you are stooping to the level of adhominems and dragging this thread down.

Easy to answer imo.

It's the internet. Many people in general are idiots. And for some reason they gather in the internet much more.

Even very good and experienced developers can't protect you from those kind of people. If there's a voice or text chat, they'll abuse it. If there's the possibility to grief or somehow else to lessen your ingame experience, they'll do it.

When you've got very experienced in the game, you'll still meet them. You'll still get executed and flamed for no reason other then they just celebrating their inner troll/idiot.

On the other hand, i've experienced much worse communities than this one. I guess because of the reading-and-writing-and-thinking-a-lot part.

My adivice - enjoy the time with the good people, there's still a lot of them.

Originally posted by Pirate Smo:

So I love town of Salem, and in my eyes this looks like an advanced version of it. Played about 10 games so far. I find playing as BD to be rubbish, loads of random lynching, If your "log" isnt to someones liking it just goes mental.

Am I missing something, please give me your feedback on true experiences to keep going.

One big thing to realize as BD player is that apart from the Prince your strongest weapon is numbers. You have to use them in order to win. Maid claim not looking so hot? -> Exe, you got the numbers.
2 Sheriff claims and one hasn't even found an unseen visiting someone after N6? -> Kill it to make sure he isn't MM or Marschall.
Knight claim in an unseen game? you might aswell ask him to CS N3.

Numbers are your weapon as BD, therefor executions are frequent.

Originally posted by Pirate Smo:

So I love town of Salem, and in my eyes this looks like an advanced version of it.

Seems to be a common misconception.
"More and stronger abilities" is not the same as advanced. Actually it's the other way around.
Take a look at observer and lookout for an easy example.
Lookout HAS to catch suspects in the act. You need to get far enough into killer's head to know where and when to wait for him.
Obs (or tracker, say hi to coven - the middle ground between ToS and ToL) can just follow his suspect and see that suspect visited a newlydead.
ToS abilities are a LOT more limited and that's what makes it a more complex game.
ToL on the other hand is like a kindergarten in that regard.
Send a wolf to prove you're the real hunter, double-vote to prove you're a real noble, etc...
There's (IMHO) only one game aspect where ToL is more advanced, it's the amount of information to keep track of.
Since the abilities give a lot more of it, there's a lot more of it to write down and to keep in mind.
Deciding what to do with it however is helluvalot easier...
(P.S. before any smart-ass asks me “why am I not in ToS then?” - I'm sticking around here because the community in ToL is a LOT less toxic)

Originally posted by Pirate Smo:

Played about 10 games so far. I find playing as BD to be rubbish, loads of random lynching, If your "log" isnt to someones liking it just goes mental.

Am I missing something, please give me your feedback on true experiences to keep going.

It's actually difficut to say for sure if you are missing something or not. Although after just 10 games... it's probably a "yes you are".

Sometimes people cry "♥♥♥♥ logs" not just because of HOW you logged but also just because of WHAT you logged.

An easy example is a CW log with no early Tornadoes.
You can spend a whole day arguing how it's not a smart idea to use tornadoes early on, BUT...
(and this is exactly the kindergarten I was talking about) using tornado early on more or less proves that you at least WERE a court wizard by the time you did that (unless it's cult, but even then it's still useful fact to have on your resume). And that means a lot in this game. So yeah, ultimately, because of what this game is, it IS smart do do an early tornado.

Hence any CW logs with no early tornadoes will get "exed for ♥♥♥♥ logs". The real translation of that is "we executed you because you had logs that are easy to fake in a game where only the most unlucky player's real logs (hello knights) look easy to fake".

Sad truth of ToL is that most of the game is (relatively to ToS) shifted away from finding out the evil and towards proving that you aren't one.

And don't get me wrong, the game "in total" is about finding evil, but it's the select few that will be doing that (prince and king) most of time. The rest are mostly there to whisper them claims, follow their orders and to do one's best to exclude oneself from the list of suspects. That last part has gotten to the ridiculous levels btw - hello knights, please Commit Suicde, thank you.

For fairness sake I should note that there ARE steps to combat some of that, for example knights now kill their good targets as well as themselves (like vigs in ToS), so they can only commit a (forced) double suicide nowadays. But in general this game has been stuck in the sate I'm describing for as long as I've known it.

With all that said though, still “the sheep is strong in this one”.
And I've had COUNTLESS games where shouting in chat outweights proof in logs of the dead BD.
But that comes with the territory, ToS wasn't immune to idiocy either.