Not bad ideas, I'd say leave the combat in though as an optional for those that want to do it themselves rather then send goons.

Originally posted by Yojimbo:

Best way to improve this game, in my opinion? Give the player the ability to use "agendas."

Enemy major factions can send squads of their guards on three types of agendas: EXPLORE (binoculars icon) to scout the map and locations, INVESTIGATE (magnifying glass icon) to investigate buildings, and ELIMINATE (crosshairs icon) to eliminate targets and attack / take over buildings. The police also use the investigate agenda for their squads, I believe. However, the player is forced to...well if you've played the game you know damn well what we're forced to do.

Completely scrap this half-hearted attempt at XCOM-like combat. Get rid of it completely! The boss powers are too powerful anyways, and battles can be too lopsided one way or the other (either the enemy ridiculously outnumbers / overpowers you, or you steamroll them with your boss powers and/or crew). Not to mention the repetition and boredom factor, yeesh! Get rid of the "gangsters" (if you can call them that) you can hire entirely, or maybe they can be used simply to manage / run rackets or neighborhoods with different bonuses, so that we can actually make meaningful decisions as to what rackets to set up. Turn this game into more of a strategy game by letting us use agendas THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE PROGRAMMED INTO THE GAME, and remove this extra stuff that just. doesn't. work. (quests, anyone?)

Do that, and you MIGHT start heading in the direction of turning this game into something really amazing.

I agree 210%!!! What we can do to them, they can do to us. But somehow? What they can do to us? We can't do to them. It throws strategy right out the damn window. Here I am and supposed to be a "Don". But I am doing all the battles as if I am trying to become a "Made Man", rather than acting as a Don. That doesn't make any sense to me.

There is plenty of gangster games with no combat. You should just play City of Gangsters if you hate tactical combat so much. Many people enjoy Xcom like combat. Omerta for example still my favorite out of these gangster games besides combat and economy being limited. Its just much more fun playing gangster games with some type of combat.

Originally posted by brotherofbuff:

There is plenty of gangster games with no combat. You should just play City of Gangsters if you hate tactical combat so much. Many people enjoy Xcom like combat. Omerta for example still my favorite out of these gangster games besides combat and economy being limited. Its just much more fun playing gangster games with some type of combat.

I think what he is referring about? Is if you are a "DON"? Then that is the role you're supposed to play. Going into combat as a Don? You go into combat if you are trying to become a "Made Man" from being a "Skilled Enforcer". The "Black Book" is those trying to become a Made man, we are a Don, so WE are supposed to be giving the orders, not doing the fighting. I agree with us being able to fight. But not being able to have "AGENDA" squads like the other families? Makes little to no sense at all.

Hell, even as a Don in The Godfather 2 game? You can send those to the battles for you, instead of you doing the battles yourself. Because that is what a Don does.

I was about to delete my comment when I realized how old it was. Well I just got done with 2 historic Mafia books. Depends, Dons are usually gonna be super old men. If there is a young Don in his 40s still going to do dirty work here and there. Like take out some under boss who is out of line.

But ya I get the point. At a certain high level should be more strategic.

Originally posted by brotherofbuff:

I was about to delete my comment when I realized how old it was. Well I just got done with 2 historic Mafia books. Depends, Dons are usually gonna be super old men. If there is a young Don in his 40s still going to do dirty work here and there. Like take out some under boss who is out of line.

But ya I get the point. At a certain high level should be more strategic.

You're misunderstanding the time period this game is set in. (starts in 1920) Most mafia dons in the Chicago area during the 1920's were not in fact old men (yet). It was a booming expansion period for new blood to make a name for themselves.

New York was run by guys a bit older. But even in NY they weren't old men yet.

What you're probably thinking of are the majority of films about gangsters which tend to be set decades after the dons were established. But Chicago in the 1920's is when many young new leaders were stepping up to take control in that region.

For example one of the more famous mafia films is The Godfather, the storyline is set around 1945 to 1965 in NY. The don in that story is around 60. If you scale back to the time period of this game, he would be in New York City, controlling it at around age 35 in 1920.

Meanwhile, contrast that with Al Capone who is only 21 years old in Chicago in the year 1920. (and is one of the main bosses in this game it's designed around). Other bosses in the game: Frank Ragen age 30 and so on.

Looking at another famous name: Lucky Luciano was born in 1897. By 1920 when this game starts he would be 23 years old. He's considered the primary founder and father of the Italian-American Mafia in New York when he established "The Commission" in 1931, he was 33 years old. He remained in control until his death in 1962 (at the age of 64)

So saying all the dons were old men, kind of ignores that most of them were running their gangs and coming into power in the 20's and 30's and then simply remained in power for decades. It's just most media you see revolves around them later in life. This game is about 1920's Chicago, and the many bosses all fighting for power.

The classic "five families" stereotype is from the establishment of the commission in 1931. Capone was 32 years old by then and Luciano was 33 years old (and regardless, that's 11 years later than this game starts)

Originally posted by chantzfortune:

Originally posted by brotherofbuff:

There is plenty of gangster games with no combat. You should just play City of Gangsters if you hate tactical combat so much. Many people enjoy Xcom like combat. Omerta for example still my favorite out of these gangster games besides combat and economy being limited. Its just much more fun playing gangster games with some type of combat.

I think what he is referring about? Is if you are a "DON"? Then that is the role you're supposed to play. Going into combat as a Don? You go into combat if you are trying to become a "Made Man" from being a "Skilled Enforcer". The "Black Book" is those trying to become a Made man, we are a Don, so WE are supposed to be giving the orders, not doing the fighting. I agree with us being able to fight. But not being able to have "AGENDA" squads like the other families? Makes little to no sense at all.

Hell, even as a Don in The Godfather 2 game? You can send those to the battles for you, instead of you doing the battles yourself. Because that is what a Don does.

You have to look at the time period of whatever game (or movie) you're talking about. In 1920's Chicago, the bosses were very hands on. They fought on the streets with their men, it's how they earned respect.

By the 1930's things were calming down, it wasn't daily gun fights and the leadership began moving into more managerial roles and learning how to stay better hidden from police with less open combat in the streets.

By the 1940's it was full on established that they needed to remain concealed and the dons/bosses were further removed and worked through middle men and codes so less could be tracked back to them.

The 1920's era (that this is set in) taught the gangs a lot about how they should conduct themselves, more as businesses and less open warfare. Capone himself spent his first time in prison not for murder, but for tax evasion. (but that event is after the games time frame)

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by brotherofbuff:

I was about to delete my comment when I realized how old it was. Well I just got done with 2 historic Mafia books. Depends, Dons are usually gonna be super old men. If there is a young Don in his 40s still going to do dirty work here and there. Like take out some under boss who is out of line.

But ya I get the point. At a certain high level should be more strategic.

You're misunderstanding the time period this game is set in. (starts in 1920) Most mafia dons in the Chicago area during the 1920's were not in fact old men (yet). It was a booming expansion period for new blood to make a name for themselves.

New York was run by guys a bit older. But even in NY they weren't old men yet.

What you're probably thinking of are the majority of films about gangsters which tend to be set decades after the dons were established. But Chicago in the 1920's is when many young new leaders were stepping up to take control in that region.

For example one of the more famous mafia films is The Godfather, the storyline is set around 1945 to 1965 in NY. The don in that story is around 60. If you scale back to the time period of this game, he would be in New York City, controlling it at around age 35 in 1920.

Meanwhile, contrast that with Al Capone who is only 21 years old in Chicago in the year 1920. (and is one of the main bosses in this game it's designed around). Other bosses in the game: Frank Ragen age 30 and so on.

Looking at another famous name: Lucky Luciano was born in 1897. By 1920 when this game starts he would be 23 years old. He's considered the primary founder and father of the Italian-American Mafia in New York when he established "The Commission" in 1931, he was 33 years old. He remained in control until his death in 1962 (at the age of 64)

So saying all the dons were old men, kind of ignores that most of them were running their gangs and coming into power in the 20's and 30's and then simply remained in power for decades. It's just most media you see revolves around them later in life. This game is about 1920's Chicago, and the many bosses all fighting for power.

The classic "five families" stereotype is from the establishment of the commission in 1931. Capone was 32 years old by then and Luciano was 33 years old (and regardless, that's 11 years later than this game starts)

Originally posted by chantzfortune:

I think what he is referring about? Is if you are a "DON"? Then that is the role you're supposed to play. Going into combat as a Don? You go into combat if you are trying to become a "Made Man" from being a "Skilled Enforcer". The "Black Book" is those trying to become a Made man, we are a Don, so WE are supposed to be giving the orders, not doing the fighting. I agree with us being able to fight. But not being able to have "AGENDA" squads like the other families? Makes little to no sense at all.

Hell, even as a Don in The Godfather 2 game? You can send those to the battles for you, instead of you doing the battles yourself. Because that is what a Don does.

You have to look at the time period of whatever game (or movie) you're talking about. In 1920's Chicago, the bosses were very hands on. They fought on the streets with their men, it's how they earned respect.

By the 1930's things were calming down, it wasn't daily gun fights and the leadership began moving into more managerial roles and learning how to stay better hidden from police with less open combat in the streets.

By the 1940's it was full on established that they needed to remain concealed and the dons/bosses were further removed and worked through middle men and codes so less could be tracked back to them.

The 1920's era (that this is set in) taught the gangs a lot about how they should conduct themselves, more as businesses and less open warfare. Capone himself spent his first time in prison not for murder, but for tax evasion. (but that event is after the games time frame)

Good point I was done reading Murder Machine and a follow up to it about 1970s and 60s time period.