Hello,

In case the train is present on the train cargo, it is counted as storage.. we can't somehow resolve as we need this mechanics to be able to load/unloading from train into train

But I think not a big problem as it can be a quite rare setup

Sorry, how is this a rare setup? This is probably most common setup ever. It's not like people usually build different stations for loading and unloading when they can use one, like here.

The quantity in actual oil tank is not even counted by DO in this scenario. DO sends trains just because another train arrived to the station. This bug affects everyone.

Moreover, the only way to even fill the oil tank here is by setting DO trigger percent to higher number than a source train filling %.

Source train filling % in real game will be at best, random, or at worst, 100%. First scenario means DO just ignores player's orders completely and works randomly. Second scenario will never fill the oil tank at all.

This wouldn't be a problem if DO's logic considered oil tank plus source train capacity. But that's not the case. This means, in a lot of industries at the moment RDOs work completely at random.

Originally posted by 3division:

But I think not a big problem as it can be a quite rare setup

So THATs what was happening...... so with:

Oil field ---> Refinery with storage ---> Customs surplus export

If RDO is involved with such "quite rare setup", like half the oil is gonna go to customs.
I dont mind going around wonky mechanics, but please pls pls dont call it rare.

I think at least a warning sign like the one we have with storages that have conveyors/pipes in between, would be needed for clarity.

Wow! I got an answer for a question I had no idea how to resolve. Because I had this bug in the OPPOSITE WAY.
On a never-(yet)-finished season on my EN channel I had a simple setup in mind:
- dedicated train (piggy+boxcars) from food factory via city (unload whatever possible) to HUB (6rails cargo station) -> wait until unloaded
- another dedicated similar train from distillery nearby (same setup)

The idea: let them fill the HUB to brim and vehicle DOs will fill up nearby cities storages (other 3 cities in range from there afair). To not waste resources and to export as well I had an RDO with "HUB - load if 80% or more" for boxcars goods; which sometimes resulted in the warehouse for food being completely emptied by this RDO train with no apparent trigger reason. As population was growing, the risk of a famine grew with each of such misbehavior (which were irregular due to the unloading city stop before reaching the hub).

It forced me to go for containering instead, there could 2 DOs collect excess instead and that worked well enough.

Now I know.

And my point is - it is not rare. And the biggest problem is that people have NO IDEA this is happening to them (or can be happening) and thus are not reporting it. Because to reach such a thing you need to be able to grow to a substantially big republic, at which point you have no chance of noticing this besides an accident (my case).

Thanks Phoenix for diagnosing this.

Originally posted by Sirius Czech:

people have NO IDEA this is happening to them

Yes, most people don't get to know the game well enough to have the will and "expertise" to diagnose this, that's why i think it's somewhat less reported.
Anyway, i made my point, it's something being presented wrong in the game. Should at least have an warning like the one with the conveyors.

Well, I am against such warning. Advertising "we have an unfixable bug" is not the greatest option imo.

Wouldn´t there be a possibility of "a second check" instead? Normally DOs react with few s delay for any trigger, only this case seems somewhat premature trigger. Something like a 5-10s for confirmation (in RDO timeschedule miniscule delay) before the train will actually depart? Because in the video it seems it reacts to the train BEFORE it even stops in the station...

Originally posted by Sirius Czech:

Well, I am against such warning. Advertising "we have an unfixable bug" is not the greatest option imo.

Wouldn´t there be a possibility of "a second check" instead? Normally DOs react with few s delay for any trigger, only this case seems somewhat premature trigger. Something like a 5-10s for confirmation (in RDO timeschedule miniscule delay) before the train will actually depart? Because in the video it seems it reacts to the train BEFORE it even stops in the station...

If I get above devs' response right, they were arguing that the mechanic is intentional to allow transferring cargo from train to train "without any storage involved at all". I highly doubt the idea of building a cargo station without any connected storage, for such specific usage, comes to an average player often (if it all). So, currently, I'd say the mechanic brings way more harm than usefulness. But the idea has, at least, some elegance to it.

If they intend to keep it as it is though, some kind the warning looks like the best solution.

You can do train-to-train nowadays, as well as train-to-truck. Silent Shadow once showed me - it you build a port and attach a storage to it (not built) and send there a ship with "wait until unloaded", ship will stay there. And you can send a truck to the port with "load" and it will load directly from the ship.

Same is probably with trains. You can have a train waiting at a station to unload and it would be able to transfer materials to second train without needing a storage. Yes, absolute rare case, because once you have a storage, you do not need this mechanic at all.

The question is - is it possible to get rid of this easily, or better not go down the hole too much? Because realistically this will affect minority of players. For most goods and stations you either load there with RDO, or unload there with RDO. The flow is not usually a bidirectional; they go from source to customers and excess for exports. The only big risk is the "hub" thing, where delivering with a line from nearby factory may result in early trigger. At which point you can use containers to export covered hull goods and you are ok.

Not a great thing and it is good we know about it.

My point was rather, I can't really see how trigger delay could solve this unless the delay is really, really enormous to make sure any inbound train unloads and leaves the station altogether (unless I'm missing something). Otherwise, by delaying the trigger we just add even more randomness to the trigger (say, partially unloaded train still triggers the RDO), confusing the player even more. Plus, we cannot guarantee the train will leave in all possible scenarios anyway. And, waiting for the train to leave defeats the purpose of keeping direct train-to-train transfer.

I, of course, would rather sacrifice train-to-train transfer altogether and never count trains as a separate storage, just for the sake of RDO transparency.

Me too, but I am not sure it is possible at all. Devs would need to say

The temporary fix to this bug is to have one cargo station only for load and other only for unload. In a republic that i built i have a harvest of 230k and i needed something to balance things between multiple storages.
I checked other train cargo stations across the republic and luckly, aside crops, no one was affected. I tend to use storage with rails included whenever possible so that helped a lot, as they can see the storage amount directly.

I use this in a similar way - it also helps to channel traffic better. So yeah, that is a way. Also with such quantities of crops, I tend to use huge silos and local crops, so not a big deal, too