Aground
zhurovium 29 Mar, 2019 @ 1:41pm
Post-run through suggestion bits&bobs
Hi David,

Having come across aground in late autumn I did almost exclusively one large playthrough of the game and thought I'd list here some suggestions that came to mind - maybe some of that might be interesting, be added in QoL update, or go to modding; hope this is useful. There are a lot of facets of the game that I liked, and it's been years since I put that much time into a new game, so here are a few things that I thought would be nice/cool to have that might augment the experience for me (and,hopefully, others) even further:

-one thing that I liked a lot were the one off potions that provided permanent stat boosts. Not only the speed and endurance ones were crucial for any post first island exploration, I liked how they synergized with the character points system - I felt compelled to add to my character's health and stamina stats a lot at the beginning, to the detriment of other traits but having the add stamina and add health options lifted such constraints allowing me to explore the "skills tech tree" quite a bit, especially with the skill resetter available. Given that it takes a while to level up past, say, level 20, and that the number of points available is markedly less than the total sum, after optimizing my build, I pretty much stayed on some empty stats in categories like Cut, Trapping and Fishing (and emptied my Critical category to boost others in late game). Whilst it might be nice to play around with these categories, they feel secondary in an optimized built, yet, sometimes, they can be very useful for certain specific purposes. Thus, it would be nice if there were additional ways to interact with the point allocation system in a similar manner as with potions e.g. having an upgrade item on the fishing rod that could have a +1/X fishing effect; or have an interaction with NPCs (on that a bit later) that , say, boosts one of Cut,Trapping , Fishing or Bargaining for a quest - e.g. the Trader is probably the least utilized NPC after the Market is brought in; what if the player could pay her a (large) sum of gold to upgrade the Bargaining stat (e.g. by "influencing" the traders, or teaching you to bargain better?)? In order to avoid upsetting the economics, it could be that there is a maximum cap for the sum of both such upgrades and investable points (though would that be too complicated to code in?).

-this brings up a second point, about the NPCs - I really like their presence, and others have also noted a liking for this civilization rebuilding scheme, there is even the NPC appreciation mod; yet, there is a lot of content to be created, and clearly additional NPC dialogue is low on the list atm is my understanding. So, having looked at the Miner with the fixed mining speed, I thought it would be cool if one could upgrade the NPCs by doing quests for them which would increase their usefulness by either them executing their tasks better or adding to the player's stats categories. The method of quest completion could be primarily through giving them better items. For instance, if one could give upgraded picks to the Miner, then her mining speed could increase; for the Hunter, giving him the Recurve Bow, then a shotgun will increase the player's trapping skill (thus intelinknig with the idea above); the Trader, apart from helping the Bargain skill, if payed gold, could, for instance, speed up the arrival of new products to the market, which actually would be very helpful in early and mid game as quite often there is a deficiency of some item or other (e.g. traps,seeds); the Farmer....uh... could be given lots of seeds and maybe then he can start allocating fertilizer to the fields (that would be a great automation) or move faster between the fields to collect more items, or get apprenctices/other farmer to come from another island through ads in the market? For the Builder... nothing really comes to mind save increasing the Cut stat and/or decreasing build time of anything on the island in return for, maybe, better axes/chainsaw? Or having a more efficient kitchen fuel usage? Not sure what the Alchemist would need as, in a way, him opening up the Magic Path is great already.

-talking of the Magic path, one of the biggest pleasant surprises on it was the discovery of spells, specifically the Tier II ones - several became critical to the whole experience for me. Thus, I was wondering if Tier III spellbooks might be introduced for the late game; I feel that they need not have to even add much functionality as such, but, rather, introduce convenience.
In that regard I am thinking of a permanent light spell, like inside the portal - since there is precedent for it and the Alchemist knows it, one could use it to extend sight not only for exploration (and I assume at this late stage of the game most people would have extended sight) but also for battle - specifically, I am thinking of the Earth canalization/tube battle on the primary island where having the bot familiar provide extra light at the edge of the screen helped detected the machines and attack the smaller war droids. Other thoughts I had might be too OP, but might be nice to have - the healing spell centred on and moving with the caster;
omnidirectional shield with less of a delay for starting up and/or deflecting some damage back at the attacker (thus being different from the Automated Suit); whilst this may be more for fun, but could also be useful again highly mobile enemies - a spellbook that is modelled after dragon fire and has enemy autotargeting features,etc.


Thank you for doing an awesome job, and I really hope this becomes a financial success as well! Talking of the latter - what's the best way to show at least some more financial support apart from buying the game? Patreon?

Cheers.
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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
David Maletz  [developer] 29 Mar, 2019 @ 7:10pm 
1. There actually are a few more items that temporarily boost stats (like sushi boosts fishing temporarily), but I should definitely add more (both temporary, permanent, and permanent while equipped like the witch hat.

2. Upgrading NPCs has been planned for a while, probably during the quality of life update. This will be more increasing their speed, productivity, mining power, etc, but perhaps some upgrades for the player too would be nice and tie in with #1.

3. There will be a third tier of spellbooks for the late game magic path (at the same level of drones/automated suit, but obviously different). I honestly haven't decided on what exactly this highest tier of books will be like, but they will be pretty powerful and I'll consider your ideas.

I'm glad you're enjoying the game! Any support is welcome (and thank you for buying the game) - if you want to do more, Patreon works well: https://www.patreon.com/fancyfishgames , or donations: https://www.paypal.me/FancyFishGames
zhurovium 6 Apr, 2019 @ 7:06am 
Great to hear that all of these have been in the works, I look forward to the additions!

3. Regarding Tier III spellbooks, will be very interesting to see what you'll end up introducing. Usefulness wise, I've had a couple more thoughts on that - generally speaking, I barely used Tier I spells as they take a while to hit and don't pack a knockout punch; for example, I was very keen to try out the drain spell on the small planet enemies, but the paltry damage made me quickly abandon that strategy. So maybe having the ability to (individually) upgrade the damage (say, double it) of Tier I spellbooks will make them relevant in the late game again?
Another thought was the teleoprtation spell - it's very useful, though if there is no hut, cannot be used. Given that this is late game, would it be too op to have the ability to set an "anchor" on an island and teleport to it instead (and only one anchor could be set at a time)?
Tactically, on places like Earth and beyond, where there are occaisonally clusters of enemies, maybe having a spell that allows the player to enrage one of the enemies so that it can attack both the player and other enemies, could be of use. (An early game example could be the Gold Golem Cave.)

For item paraphernalia, I just read that you might allow pumpkings to grow in the hydroponics -so I thought that maybe we could have a two stage quest to first minituarize pumpkins to allow for such ability, and then have something like pumkin soup (in a can/sealed) as a late game item that boosts a stat (maybe) the same way the Alchemist's potions do? Having something like an evolution shard needed to minituarize pumkings or to create said soup might make it a reasonable trade-off.

Thank you, David, for creating this game, and being so passionate and involved with the community as well; Patreon it is!
Cheers!
David Maletz  [developer] 6 Apr, 2019 @ 9:53am 
The spellbooks are top-tier in terms of damage, they are a little slow, but they have different specials to make up for it (like the bi-directional fireballs or the ice going through tiles so you can actually kill some enemies without ever being in danger of getting attacked). A damage upgrade would definitely be nice for tier 3 though. I have to be careful about the book of return or it could easily become OP - but perhaps some flag/indicator that sets the restore point would be a neat addition. Again, the book of enrage is also probably OP - as you could just enrage all enemies and have them kill each other while you hide, but I do want to add more enemy interaction and ways to get them to fight each other (just not for bosses/etc).

I decided to just have pumpkins growable in hydroponics - no quests/miniaturization needed (enough people complained about it, even though they are not an essential crop).
zhurovium 12 Apr, 2019 @ 8:25am 
I was thinking in terms of repurposing the spellbooks for late game usage (and the perks they have are certainly nice; did not use much book of ice, did not notice tile penetration on it); hopefully the upgrade damage makes it in and allows them to remain relevant.
Both for book or return and enrage, to avoid them being OP, I was thinking that they could be limited to single use, maybe with a timed mechanic like the Book of Light? In the case of the former, having a temporary anchor point (something like 5-10 mins) ensures that the player can do a single run, but must not get too greedy; for the latter, this expands the tactical scope of options but also makes the player choose carefully which enemy to enrage (say, 1 min,maybe?) in the first place. Assuming that enrage does not work on ships, and we only have one double boss in mid game, would enraging the boss have any effect at all, as usually the bosses don't have supporting minions (the wyrm queen is earlier and cannot attack, etc)?
I also did a "tour of the world" on the expanded view (through the def console zoom adjustment) and found it quite beautiful - both the islands and the underwater areas. This, along with the scout drone made me think that it would be useful and cool to have a revelation spell that a player can temporarily cast onto an expanded map - (e.g. zoom 3 or 4) and see what's in the dark areas (revelation size limited by player sight, for instance) - it's different to the scout drone as it will reveal unmined areas and show potential enemy locations, so providing useful intelligence. And since it is coming late game, there will be few big surprises/locked areas remaining.

For QoL pdate, it would be wonderful if we could set bots to work certain pens/hydroponics because even in a saturated state, the farm bots tend to be not very optimal (I set up several gold harvesting operations in my existing areas, and the rate of uptake varies greatly) - especially in the space station, where I have both hydroponics and uranium harvesting, I would dearly love to have a few dedicated farm bots getting rice and apples, whilst the rest sort through other resources. Picking up and placing patrol bots on different levels would also be cool to have (on my main island I have a second level with grassy walkways and an advanced lab, the patrol bot never lowered itself to the ground level, despite there being no enemies up above - I ultimately built a second advanced lab inside the mountain to get the bots on the right level).

Glad that pumpkins will be growable. Given that they have no late game use, unlike,say, ice berries, any chance we could get a food derivative like said pumpkin soup that does a small % increase on stamina/health or adds +1 to cut, or some other minor stat; just so that this addition is not purely for aesthetics?

As usual, thank you for all your hard work and your time in replying to these.

PS
Oh yeah, similarly to assigning farm bots, it would be nice to have automated (or, at least, maybe as an upgrade to the farmer?) way of assigning priorities for fertilizing crops.

PPS
I have not done a pure Magic runthrough yet, but I did notice that the magic house only replenishes stamina, and not even health. Maybe it would be nice to have house upgrades that enable the player to get health and, maybe, spirit replenishment (very late game?)?
Last edited by zhurovium; 12 Apr, 2019 @ 8:40am
David Maletz  [developer] 12 Apr, 2019 @ 9:18am 
I will never use scale 3+ legit, as it has lots of rendering problems - the scout drone is probably one of the better scouting items you'll get. The tier 3 spellbooks won't be direct upgrades to existing spells, but they will have similarities. Although I do think that setting return points for the book of return would be interesting (not even requiring an upgrade).

Setting bots to specific hydroponics/pens is planned for the QoL update, and so is picking up/placing them.

That's kind of why I felt like pumpkins weren't needed in the hydroponics. People requested them enough that you can grow them, but I'm not sure I'll add a late game use for them beside free light sources.

Magic is behind science right now, but I will be adding some higher tier structures for magic.
zhurovium 1 May, 2019 @ 3:40pm 
Had the pleasure of sneaking a peek at the newer stuff; looks pretty awesome.


Re tier 3 spellbooks, for scouting, I was wondering if having the ability to "tag" an enemy for a while, thus revealing the map based on where they've been could be potentially a useful and asymmetric feature - e.g. tagging a few wyrms or some of the Earth bots could allow for some extra exploration? Or have the tier 3 spellbooks have all been settled on already?

Really looking forward to the QoL update on the bots - I'm setting up the bot economy on my current runthrough and observing their movements shows how very inefficient they are even with saturation (e.g. 1:1 ratio). In that respect, I have a question - I've seen this behaviour quite a few times and wondering why that is - on some of the islands where I produce a batch of bots and they tend to aggregate around one cell (usually the top left hand side one near the factory) and stay there for a long time despite the fact that the pen is already being services by multiple bots, there is no resource to pick from it, and there are multiple other pen with ready resources waiting for collection?

I recently discovered the Wyrm Queen as a drill option, and whilst I found it fun to try out, she does require quite a lot of fuel - having a mini synthesizer mitigates that, but I prefer stockpiling and I realized (having wanted circa 1000 steaks) that with the fuel limit on the synethsizer it takes many loads to get the total number of steaks - would it be possible to change the max fuel load of the synthesizer to something like 1200? This would also be nice in prepping using the Dragonship, for instance (on my first runthrough I used that, but quickly switched to the Escort Ship due to the need to pile up several hundred worth of steaks/coal -was a bit cumbersome) - having the ability to load up a huge amount of resource and let it collect, like in the Mobile Lab, would be really useful.

Cheers!
David Maletz  [developer] 1 May, 2019 @ 6:14pm 
Most tier 3 spellbooks are already designed (they are only accessible with cheats right now). Most of them will be attack spells, but there will be one utility spell too.

The bots are known to be inefficient, especially since they have an idle where they tend nearby "crops" before going to harvest, but for some farm setups, that can be very wasteful (where I just want it to slow them down a bit).

Sure, I can add more max fuel to the mini synthesizer.
zhurovium 7 May, 2019 @ 1:19pm 
I've had a sneak peak at those, they look pretty awesome.

OK, I look forward to the QoL update on the drones!

Thank you for adding in extra fuel to the synthesizers - makes the magic vehicles set up much nicer!

A couple of small things - I think until recently I did not correctly view how the shields worked - not until I tried the Ice Shield to great success against Them during boarding - I hope the reflected damage to them upon attack is not a bug!. Am I correct in thinking that the shield currently operates on the principle of Durability - (Attack-Defence on Shield) until it breaks (and the energy/magic shields are simple Energy/Stamina - Attack)? If so, I thought it would be great to have, if not a quest,but maybe an explanation on how shields work - I remember on my very first playthrough I did not even realize there were shields or how to use them properly for a while, and ignored the buckler because it had no defence; whilst just recently I had a great time protecting my protagonist against the boars and wyrms with it, making life much easier. Maybe its obvious, but I think some players would benefit from explanation of the principle on which the shields operate, imho. Would be nice if that was included in QoL update. Same goes for making Feed the Wyrm a quest- I think that's the only significant progression action that is not framed as a quest.



David Maletz  [developer] 7 May, 2019 @ 6:09pm 
Yeah, that's how shields work, and they are pretty valuable especially for melee players (with good shield usage, you can take little to no damage and simply have to repair the shield, or with the energy shield, just recharge batteries). And yes, the ice shield does have reflection damage if you successfully block a melee attack with it (one of only two items in the game currently).

I'll add a note for a quest for that (and feeding wyrms) for the QoL update... as I think they could be explained earlier as even the buckler is useful as you saw vs early enemies.
Last edited by David Maletz; 7 May, 2019 @ 6:10pm
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