just go back to them and you will still be able to talk to the both of them and do the side quest

Robo, he meant a totally different quest.

@Kusoyaro
You don't have enough sympathy with Tharaêl, so he doesn't trust you enough.

Originally posted by KhobarKast:

Robo, he meant a totally different quest.

@Kusoyaro
You don't have enough sympathy with Tharaêl, so he doesn't trust you enough.

I thought as much, didn't have time to test it earlier. Wiki also said nothing about requirements.
Thanks for confirming it.

I'm in the same boat, quest fails before I actually receive it, and frankly, I recall only a single dislike and zero likes from Tharael; I don't think I talked with him much. I delayed this questline because I won my arena championship by quasi-exploit at a low level. Seems odd to predetermine a quest fail over what I perceived as a single conversation choice made many days earlier.

Will this quest ever be reoffered?
If not, is there a console command line to shift buttheads disposition to give you the quest?

Originally posted by bbfloyd:

Will this quest ever be reoffered?
If not, is there a console command line to shift buttheads disposition to give you the quest?

Not 100% sure but i doubt you can do it later due to "plot reasons". Someone who has gone through all the endings could probably offer more accurate advice on that.

Found a console command for disposition in the wiki:

You can get the refID by clicking Tharaêl with the console open.

Haven't tested this so can't guarantee it works.

Thanks, the commands are working sort of...

getrelationshiprank reveals Tharael is fine with me - level 3 of 4 -> "ally". Raising it to "4" - "lover" changed nothing.

Perhaps the like/dislike system uses a private variable and not the game engine function.

Testing yielded some more detail: I return to Tharael to find him singing and dancing in the kids room. I've tested all the dialog choices, it always ends up triggering a message that says "Learn more about Tharael", then one or two more dialog choices ends up with quest "Old Wounds" completing, "Brothers" failing, and a new quest starting. Clearly I've failed something with Tharael or another NPC/trigger long before we ever got to this quest... stupid.

Oh well moving on, I guess Tharael and his problems can kiss me backside.

Found somethings online; it appears Enderal is using a custom scripted "approval" system for these special NPCs, the game engine relationshiprank is not the controlling variable. There is a mod called the Enderal Tracking Tool that reveals these hidden variables for inspection, and another note I found said you had to have "20 approval" with Tharael to trigger the "Brothers" questline.

I've had to do a lot of experimentation (with the aid of some save-scumming) in order not to screw things up with some of these NPCs.

Jespar and Esme were easy enough for me to figure out on-the-fly, but Tharaêl and Calia were a different story.

(And Dijaam was a backstabbing hussy from the word go: I didn't bother trying to get on her good side, because I don't think she even had one. =p)

Actually Dijaam was easy, and Calia as far as I've progressed. But this Tharael thing irks me because I really didn't interact with him much, certainly not enough to justify killing a questline, and the conversation opportunities were ingame weeks ago. Oh well, I've passed it up now, and Enderal isn't on my "must replay" list (yet), but at least it has managed to stay installed...

You actually didn't miss much, but I think I understand how you feel about it.

I somehow managed to screw myself out of a proper beginning to Two Souls II with Calia, and wound up having to resort to the setstage console command to get it started (and in the process I think I likewise managed to miss a knowledge point with Tealor Arantheal =/)

Originally posted by bbfloyd:

Thanks, the commands are working sort of...

getrelationshiprank reveals Tharael is fine with me - level 3 of 4 -> "ally". Raising it to "4" - "lover" changed nothing.

Perhaps the like/dislike system uses a private variable and not the game engine function.

Testing yielded some more detail: I return to Tharael to find him singing and dancing in the kids room. I've tested all the dialog choices, it always ends up triggering a message that says "Learn more about Tharael", then one or two more dialog choices ends up with quest "Old Wounds" completing, "Brothers" failing, and a new quest starting. Clearly I've failed something with Tharael or another NPC/trigger long before we ever got to this quest... stupid.

Oh well moving on, I guess Tharael and his problems can kiss me backside.

Yeah this is trash. Also got him to Ally relation with nothing changing, plus the wiki itself says nothing of requirements. Enderal can be so frustrating sometimes. Oh well...I wont even bother dealing with him next playthrough.

Tried looking for more info on Enderal specific commands but found quite little.

As i have passed this mission ages ago and i don't have any saves old enough to test it i can't guarantee this works so if someone could confirm this, that would be lovely.

Sympathy/approval increasing command:


This might work as long it doesn't give you any errors.
In case it needs a bigger level of approval, you could try setting it to 150.

Originally posted by Kusoyaro:

Tried looking for more info on Enderal specific commands but found quite little.

As i have passed this mission ages ago and i don't have any saves old enough to test it i can't guarantee this works so if someone could confirm this, that would be lovely.

Sympathy/approval increasing command:

Set SympathyTharael to 20

This might work as long it doesn't give you any errors.
In case it needs a bigger level of approval, you could try setting it to 150.

I loaded the old save and can confirm this works.

so do you miss much if you fail this quest? Or lock yourself off of anything important?

i too failed the Brothers quest, but i like rolling with the outcomes while playing, so don't want to do any console trickery. thanks!

Originally posted by spaneika:

so do you miss much if you fail this quest? Or lock yourself off of anything important?

i too failed the Brothers quest, but i like rolling with the outcomes while playing, so don't want to do any console trickery. thanks!

Wiki has the info but if you'd rather not spoil things then i can say it locks you out of 2 possible endings at the end of the quest. The rewards also change depending on the ending (and skill checks).

Frankly the only thing you miss is "plot" and a possible "talent" but the talent is just extra.

Someone who actually has the talent could shed some light on it since i missed it originally and have stopped playing the game ages ago.