Originally posted by ReBoot:

How to say "I can't be bothered researching before buying" without using exactly these words. As for second-hand games market, wait for sales. If you're fine to pay a 25% second-hand fee, you can simply buy a game for 25% off. Or 75% off, however you calculate that fee. All it takes is patience. That's the trade-off we have on Steam: no second-hand sales but discounts which makes any console games store blush.

Originally posted by mayfluxitgay:

Mine are as follows.

1.) Lack of demos
~60% of games I see lack demos. If crafting demos is a significant cost, then charge about one non-refundable dollar for demos. That way, you only gamble a dollar on a game you don't like, Steam or the developers don't lose out totally on things like payment processing fees for having given you something, developers have more incentive to create demos, and piracy rates will likely drop at a yet to be determined amount, as consumers won't have to sink 20+ dollars into a game like Nine Sols "just to try it out" and potentially strain Steam support with refunds. See point 2.

2.) Refunds
The 2 hours/weeks system isn't even solid enough to demo games, as "Steam moderators determine you to be abusing the system" is vague and could lead to situations like staff being more likely to determine gay people abuse the refund system. You can't say that it doesn't happen if we lack transparency in the decision-making rationale. I'd rather lose a dollar to demo a game I don't like than have to beg those above me for a refund under vague "abuse" rules, EVEN IN CASES WHERE I MEET THE 2 HOURS/WEEKS CRITERIA. Having a more dynamic refund policy would be hard to implement, but hypothetically speaking, cutscene-heavy games should have slightly longer playtime windows while action-heavy games should have slightly shorter playtime windows. However, Epic Games' refund policy is more consumer-friendly, as it's easier to grasp, even if Steam "sometimes" makes exceptions and has a few more nuanced cases. Steam uses weird language like "early access refunds", and I was unable to get a refund because I didn't understand that refunds meant 2 hours/weeks of PLAYABLE products rather than 1.0 releases. Call me "illiterate" or "lazy", but if you want to offer more flexibility, do so straightforwardly. Much of the gamer demographic, particularly the whales, are likely home-schooled or autistic, which means they realistically could have poorer literary skills. They shouldn't have to consult a lawyer or file a ticket for convoluted phrasing.

3.) No license resales
Allowing license resales could lead to more accounts being hacked, but it could also lead to less risk-involved buying and potentially comparable revenue for devs if there's a resale fee of ~25% that goes to them and maybe ~15% to Steam. That's basically a potential 60% refund once you played through a game and don't want it anymore, which is fair given how many physical games had similar expectations on the secondhand market under depreciation (with the exception of rare and high-demand ones like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky). Software-wise, it wouldn't be too hard to integrate. Allowing you to buy games secondhand through the Steam marketplace would reduce unauthorized key site sales that can lead to licenses being revoked, credit card fraud, malware clients, and so on. Allowing for resales in an official capacity could also bring back some pirates (or simply people who replaced gaming with physical-friendly film, music, and other forms of media or intangible entertainment) who left the gaming market once they abandoned physical media. Prices have only gone upwards in the gaming industry, despite manufacturers cutting costs by not using physical media, and who cares if "using 10 install discs is inconvenient"? I actually don't remember if selling physical discs meant reselling the licenses back in the days of SecuROM and the likes, but if it did, then I'd rather have the inconvenience of lugging that stuff around than being locked into digital products I own forever. This drastically reduces the quality of the Steam service versus when my family bought me console games around 2013. Sure, sales are bountiful, but I want the option to pay more now and have more flexibility later. While buying BioShock: Infinite for the Xbox 360 for 20 dollars in 2014 and then reselling it for 7.50 now would be more of a hassle and a bigger loss than buying BioShock: Infinite for 10 dollars today and not liking it, I have Pokemon games that I could sell for more than NIB value around launch, even adjusted for inflation. What about Nintendo Switch 1 games? 60 dollars to buy, 50 dollars resale value, 10 dollars + a mild selling inconvenience lost, although with the gain in helping someone get the game for cheaper for your inner philanthropist. But buy the new 60 dollar Call of Duty game on Steam you realize sucks after 2 hours and 1 minute, and you're behind 60 dollars with no ability to help anybody else get the game cheaper used.

4.) Community attitude, insufficient rules enforcement, and certain rules themselves
It's too long to explain, but in essence, this site is a "kiss devs and Steam's ass and do not question anything they do because they're perfect little angels", or, "I totally understand your sentiment pal, now drop the topic, stop critically thinking, and either buy or leave". Additionally, the no begging rule is pointless, as it could only BENEFIT the platform, since devs still get money, Steam still gets their cut, and it's a good way to market games and help newbies use the platform more if they can't decide a game to buy, but organization of the forum... well, that'd be dealt with through a begging containment thread, rather than a broad ban of the topic. Like what's the point of such a rule? Toxic masculinity that you didn't work hard enough or something? Who cares? It's just videos games. If it gets too spammy with short comments like "buy me gta v", maybe make some rule like, "If you're going to beg for a video game, use this detailed format and elaborate on details like your background so that it can serve as inspiration for other people to want the game", or something like that. Because college scholarships work like that. Maybe begging could be allowed under a more formal game scholarship program. Couldn't hurt to try. Games are scientifically proven to boost focus and help treat depression in many people, so there's a legitimate reason to make them honorary medical and/or academic expenses where the government won't or something. That's a bit of a hyperbole of course, but if someone has more wealth and can afford to distribute a game to people, that means more sales, and that benefits the bottom line. Even if we play into how Steam is privately-owned and not all about the money, then if you're annoyed by people begging "for community culture", then there's no culture here since everyone is an irate rage-baiter and staff rarely intervene.

Do NOT use the "but other stores do this!!1" fallacy to white-knight Steam under my post. This is about ideals: not "how it is". "How it is" is currently that we're fighting to stop killing games.

Originally posted by ReBoot:

That's the trade-off we have on Steam: no second-hand sales but discounts which makes any console games store blush.

Originally posted by Kargor:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

That's the trade-off we have on Steam: no second-hand sales but discounts which makes any console games store blush.

It's also the reason that we get such sales and bundles in the first place: Steam has always been very strict about its "games do not leave accounts" core policy, so publishers know that giving you a game for cheap will not be feeding the 2nd hand market.

Talking about the 2nd hand market -- that would be horrible on a platform like Steam. Back in the old days, physical items had to be shifted which put a bit of a damper on 2nd hand -- items would show wear, it would cost money to move them to their new owner, and people would not do this worldwide. On Steam, bits don't deteriorate at all -- the used copy will be 100% identical to a new one, even if it changed hands 17472 times already. And sending a used copy from Germany to Vietnam would be no different from giving it to my neighbor.

Originally posted by mayfluxitgay:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

How to say "I can't be bothered researching before buying" without using exactly these words. As for second-hand games market, wait for sales. If you're fine to pay a 25% second-hand fee, you can simply buy a game for 25% off. Or 75% off, however you calculate that fee. All it takes is patience. That's the trade-off we have on Steam: no second-hand sales but discounts which makes any console games store blush.

The trade-off is that there are no console games stores anymore. Everything is digital and tied to a license you can't resell.

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by mayfluxitgay:

The trade-off is that there are no console games stores anymore. Everything is digital and tied to a license you can't resell.

This, my dude, is a lie. You can buy physical games for XBox, Switch & PS. Those aren't tied to any "license you can't resell" either. Licenses for physical games are tied to the physical medium which you can resell. Pro tip: if you want to make a point, don't lie.

As for "console game stores", there's no need specifically for "console games stores". There's "general games stores" (Gamestop comes to mind) which sell PHYSICAL console games, along with gaming hardware & merch. Then there's general electronics stores, the kind that sells TVs & fridges, alongside with consoles, PCs, movies and, of course, PHYSICAL console games.