PinkPanzer 16. juli kl. 5.06
7
3
2
11
2
3
3
2
2
28
The new Steam distribution guideline worries me greatly!.
Steam has now implemented a new guideline for developers which worries me and see me less protected as a consumer.

Steam guidelines:
What you shouldn’t publish on Steam:

1. Hate speech, i.e. speech that promotes hatred, violence or discrimination against groups of people based on ethnicity, religion, gender, age, disability or sexual orientation
2. Nude or sexually explicit images of real people
3. Adult content that isn’t appropriately labelled and age-gated
4. Libelous or defamatory statements
5. Content you don’t own or have adequate rights to
6. Content that violates the laws of any jurisdiction in which it will be available
7. Content that is patently offensive or intended to shock or disgust viewers
8. Content that exploits children in any way
9. Applications that modify customer’s computers in unexpected or harmful ways, such as malware or viruses
10. Applications that fraudulently attempts to gather sensitive information, such as Steam credentials or financial data (e.g. credit card information)\
11. Video content not directly related to a product that has shipped on Steam.
12. Non-interactive 360 VR Videos
13. Applications built on blockchain technology that issue or allow exchange of cryptocurrencies or NFTs.
14. Applications with advertising-based business models.


The new one:
15. Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content.

So can anyone at Steam explain this to me like i am a child?, does this mean that when a developer publish a game on Steam which does not violate any rules 1-14 yet a Steam payment processor(Visa,Mastercard,or whatever rule 15 third party) disagrees the game does not see the light of day to sell on Steam, and or can possible be removed from your library as a consumer?. Is Steam and its users now beholden to entity's that changes rules at the drop of a head?, which is as unpredictable as the current USA presidents foreign policy?.
Rule 1 to 14 make sense to me, but 15 is so broadly applicable and undefined, that everything can violate that rule.

So my questions are at follows:
1- Are developers now beholden to the ever changing minds of payment processors?. And have no protection against them so they can forced to be unable to do business at the drop of a hat?.
2- For consumers, can games retroactively be removed from our libraries if the parties in rule 15 want so?.
3 - Is Steam looking for alternatives in payment processors who are more freedom of speech minded, like we have Ideal here in the Netherlands. Or maybe a Steam points system where you can pay for points to buy games, i don't know.
4 - How can we as a community stop this from happening and that unrelated third parties force their undemocratic/misguided polices on consumers.

To my knowledge the parties mentioned in rule 15 are not democratically elected and have no law making abilities, while they can refuse to do business with anyone they also have to abide to the USA constitution and its laws. But i am not a US citizen so i am unfamiliar with the laws, but i am very worried since nearly all my games i play are on Steam and if they can be removed or Steam is forced to apply censorship by a third party, the situation change dramatically in such a way that i give up gaming completely or look for alternative methods for acquiring my games. We know what is happened to other sites where this has happened, so the future is looking rather grim.

PS: Keep discussion civil and on point, don't feed the trolls, thank you for reading.
Sist redigert av PinkPanzer; 16. juli kl. 5.06
< >
Viser 115 av 524 kommentarer
bidulless 16. juli kl. 5.18 
hello

i guess a good start would have been to post the original link that you seems to comment, else it have absolutely 0 value sorry ...
and by original link i want to say the old and new one because your comment are from both ...
we are not on a pub where we can chichat drinking a beer ...
Opprinnelig skrevet av Boblin the Goblin:
There is no number 15.

https://partner.steamgames.com/steamdirect/
No, he's right, the one you linked is just not up to date, at least yet.
He's referring to the one you can read there https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboarding, which is the same, but with the point 15 😉
Sist redigert av Zoltan Redbeard; 16. juli kl. 5.27
Chika Ogiue 16. juli kl. 5.29 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Boblin the Goblin:
There is no number 15.

https://partner.steamgames.com/steamdirect/

There is now.

And as I said in the topic posted earlier today on the subject:

I'd be more outraged by this if it weren't for the fact that Valve have been refusing certain kinds of content for years regardless of whether there's a hint of sex or not.
Sist redigert av Chika Ogiue; 16. juli kl. 5.29
Ben Lubar 16. juli kl. 5.33 
They banned a few games about incest when this rule was added.

https://steamdb.info/history/events/?before=64657809
Ben Lubar 16. juli kl. 5.43 
I think it's quite simple. If Steam doesn't remove these games, nobody can use Paypal to buy games on Steam.

Steam would rather remove a few games about incest that don't sell at all than lose an entire payment processor.
Opprinnelig skrevet av J4MESOX4D:
Media have picked up on this story now https://www.pcgamer.com/software/platforms/steam-introduces-new-rule-prohibiting-certain-kinds-of-adult-content-that-might-make-visa-or-mastercard-unhappy-financial-deplatforming-in-action/
Pc Gamer has really made some... interesting choices, as to who writes what and the use of their platform like a blog. The author just makes me think "yikes!"
J4MESOX4D 16. juli kl. 5.51 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Ben Lubar:
I think it's quite simple. If Steam doesn't remove these games, nobody can use Paypal to buy games on Steam.

Steam would rather remove a few games about incest that don't sell at all than lose an entire payment processor.
Multi-layered TOS that may change or evolve needs to be conveyed clearly and this is what will concern developers. Adhering to Steam's basic publication terms is easy, but when you suddenly have a multitude of other entities wading in using preferential terms rather than governmental requirements then it will be an absolute pain especially if you get shafted by just one provider on the other side of the world. Your game could be outright banned globally for just upsetting a commercial entity in Asia rather than it being blocked regionally.
Sist redigert av J4MESOX4D; 16. juli kl. 5.52
PocketYoda 16. juli kl. 6.01 
Anyone have a list of the games removed?
Ben Lubar 16. juli kl. 6.04 
Opprinnelig skrevet av PocketYoda:
Anyone have a list of the games removed?
Yes, I posted a SteamDB link above.
Chika Ogiue 16. juli kl. 6.06 
2
Opprinnelig skrevet av Ben Lubar:
I think it's quite simple. If Steam doesn't remove these games, nobody can use Paypal to buy games on Steam.

Valve will of course cave to payment processors. First it's "incest" next it'll be "girls who look younger than 30". And the slope will just keep getting steeper downward. Once you give an inch, they will demand a mile. We've seen this same attack on various stores in my region. Only one had the guts to tell the payment processors to take a hike.

It's also reached the point in my region that the government is increasingly concerned about foreign meddling with creative freedom as allowed via our constitution. We're now just waiting to see if the government will have the backbone to actually start cracking down on this unnecessary policing of content.

But like I say, with Steam, we're not going to really see that much of a change at this time. Valve employees have already been heavy handed with denying certain games, regardless of whether they are aimed at adults or not -- and they've been doing it for far longer than the payment processors.
Opprinnelig skrevet av Chika Ogiue:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Ben Lubar:
I think it's quite simple. If Steam doesn't remove these games, nobody can use Paypal to buy games on Steam.

Valve will of course cave to payment processors. First it's "incest" next it'll be "girls who look younger than 30". And the slope will just keep getting steeper downward. Once you give an inch, they will demand a mile. We've seen this same attack on various stores in my region. Only one had the guts to tell the payment processors to take a hike.

It's also reached the point in my region that the government is increasingly concerned about foreign meddling with creative freedom as allowed via our constitution. We're now just waiting to see if the government will have the backbone to actually start cracking down on this unnecessary policing of content.

But like I say, with Steam, we're not going to really see that much of a change at this time. Valve employees have already been heavy handed with denying certain games, regardless of whether they are aimed at adults or not -- and they've been doing it for far longer than the payment processors.
Most of the games removed or denied seem to portray minors in sexual situations.
ShelLuser 16. juli kl. 6.16 
I can't help but laugh at all the fear mongering. Steam / Valve wants to sell games, do you really think that they'll let some payment processor tell them what they can and cannot do?

Most of those legal disclaimers are there for one simple reason: cover bases. No more, no less. I mean... I doubt most people even read those disclaimers: payment processors already have all the legal options they need to deny you service - as an individual -. Just saying....

Honestly, I'd worry more about the pressure which Steam/Valve is getting from our governments. I never backed down from adult and controversial games, even if I personally didn't really "believe" in them because I think it's a very good thing that people are allowed to get a platform for their stuff here and share / work on their fantasies and imagination.

Yet ironically enough (edit: some of..) the mature games in my library weren't banned on the market because of vague policies but rather because my (European) government wants nothing to do with them. I can still install & play them (Steam has my back!) but their hub is no longer accessible to me.

But leave it up to "gamers" to ignore the major red flags right in front of them and instead focus their attention on a vague detail which most didn't even read and/or fully grasp in the first place.
Sist redigert av ShelLuser; 16. juli kl. 6.20
Chika Ogiue 16. juli kl. 6.19 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Mad Scientist:
Most of the games removed or denied seem to portray minors in sexual situations.

It's fiction.

Opprinnelig skrevet av ShelLuser:
I can't help but laugh at all the fear mongering. Steam / Valve wants to sell games, do you really think that they'll let some payment processor tell them what they can and cannot do?

It's not really fear mongering when it's a documented event. Of which there is a lot of recorded instances in which Mastercard and Visa in particular have made these demands to stores. It's been heavily documented in my region. The stores themselves have been very vocal about these demands being made of them. It's only natural that the same demands would reach Valve at some point.
Sist redigert av Chika Ogiue; 16. juli kl. 6.22
< >
Viser 115 av 524 kommentarer
Per side: 1530 50