To the "Gabe caved" crowd... :: Steam Discussions

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Jakob Fel 5 hours ago

To the "Gabe caved" crowd...

Y'all are absolutely nuts.

Do you seriously think that Gaben was willing to completely cut off a supermajority of its revenue just to save a few degenerate games?

Look, I get it: the fact that these payment processors have this sort of power is beyond alarming. To be clear, I do think we need to push back because of the precedent this sets. But placing the blame on Gabe and Valve for saving their business in the short term? That's not "caving", that's them doing what they were outright forced to do.

For years, they have taken a hands-off approach to moderation/store policy. This is absolutely a good thing. These all sorts of activists groups have been trying to push for this sort of thing for years now. It just so happens that, for whatever reason, this particular feminist group got the ear of Visa, Mastercard, PayPal and the like and this is what led to Steam being forced to do this.

Yes, they were FORCED. History has shown us that Gabe and this company are not interested in moderating the art on Steam unless it's illegal or malicious. Now, they're given a live-or-die ultimatum and y'all are seriously turning on them?

Just place the blame appropriately.

Protest these payment providers. Buy Steam wallet cards (if you're in the US). Use cash anywhere you possibly can, and resort to prepaid credit cards and store gift cards when you need to make online payments (and pay for those with cash). The only reason these payment providers are able to get away with this in the first place is because everyone went after mUh cOnVeNiEnCe without stopping to consider the possible dangers and implications of such a thing. People decided it was easier to swipe a card or tap a phone to pay rather than carrying some dollar bills in your wallet or buying a gift card for your online purchases.

Instead of going insane toward Valve, take what action you can take and actually vote with your wallet so the people who are actually responsible for this start to feel the weight of your anger.

Last edited by Jakob Fel; 5 hours ago

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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments

Lunar Fang 5 hours ago

Well steam allowed the games to be sold. People think steam has no checks and balances on what games they sell, when they do.

The US government never got involved because if it was that easy to get your hands on "illegal" material. They would of dropped the hammer on steam a long time ago, but again steam would of stopped it if it was that bad before it got there.

Visa and Mastercard's own TOS supersedes Steam's TOS now.

No one cares about a few porn games nobody probably played, but it's a doorway into something worse.

The same people who made a huge fuss about this Collective Shout, also tried to get Detroit Become Human banned because there's child abuse in the game. Understand how slippery the slope is.

Last edited by Lunar Fang; 5 hours ago

Jakob Fel 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Lunar Fang:
Well steam allowed the games to be sold. People think steam has no checks and balances on what games they sell, when they do.

The US government never got involved because if it was that easy to get your hands on "illegal" material. They would of dropped the hammer on steam a long time ago, but again steam would of stopped it if it was that bad before it got there.

Visa and Mastercard's own TOS supersedes Steam's TOS now.

No one cares about a few porn games nobody probably played, but it's a doorway into something worse.

The same people who made a huge fuss about this Collective Shout, also tried to get Detroit Become Human banned because there's child abuse in the game. Understand how slippery the slope is.

I agree with everything you said, that's not what I'm arguing against here. I'm just saying that placing the blame on Gabe and Valve for something that is literally out of their control is misplaced blame and it serves no positive purpose. Instead of doing that, people should take what action they can take. Problem is, too many are obsessed with convenience that I doubt enough will actually do it to make change a possibility.

Lunar Fang 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:
Originally posted by Lunar Fang:
Well steam allowed the games to be sold. People think steam has no checks and balances on what games they sell, when they do.

The US government never got involved because if it was that easy to get your hands on "illegal" material. They would of dropped the hammer on steam a long time ago, but again steam would of stopped it if it was that bad before it got there.

Visa and Mastercard's own TOS supersedes Steam's TOS now.

No one cares about a few porn games nobody probably played, but it's a doorway into something worse.

The same people who made a huge fuss about this Collective Shout, also tried to get Detroit Become Human banned because there's child abuse in the game. Understand how slippery the slope is.

I agree with everything you said, that's not what I'm arguing against here. I'm just saying that placing the blame on Gabe and Valve for something that is literally out of their control is misplaced blame and it serves no positive purpose. Instead of doing that, people should take what action they can take. Problem is, too many are obsessed with convenience that I doubt enough will actually do it to make change a possibility.

Because most humans think small and they miss a lot of details. A lot of other steam users smirk while pushing up their glasses because steam dropped a few porn games and the perverts on steam got owned.

It's far deeper than that with more complexity. The people who brought all this up, actually got their local target to not sell GTAV when it came out and that has nothing to do with incest or children, r*pe.

I understand your point that their anger is misguided, but I think it's just venting frustrations. Most people are talk and no action.

Jakob Fel 4 hours ago

Originally posted by Lunar Fang:
Because most humans think small and they miss a lot of details. A lot of other steam users smirk while pushing up their glasses because steam dropped a few porn games and the perverts on steam got owned.

It's far deeper than that with more complexity. The people who brought all this up, actually got their local target to not sell GTAV when it came out and that has nothing to do with incest or children, r*pe.

I understand your point that their anger is misguided, but I think it's just venting frustrations. Most people are talk and no action.

I suppose it's fair that it is just venting, at least for some. It's frustrating to me how many complain but refuse to take action or even try to find ways they can make an impact. It's too easy to complain and expect everyone else to do the work for you.

Kiryn 4 hours ago

You start out good, but then try to tie it in to 'feminists'/woke/etc. Has nothing to do with that - the payment companies have been doing this for years now in multiple industries, including 'sex positive' women-produced porn, Only Fans, Patreon, etc.. It's raging capitalists (and their avoidance of anything that might blow back on their profits), not feminists.

Potentially-abusable laws like the UK's new Online Safety something something law (I forget the exact name), that might get them hit with all sorts of penalties if they're tied to the wrong stuff on the net, don't help. I'm sure their legal departments are part of the push behind this stuff.

TGC> The Games Collector 4 hours ago

Apparently there's a petition going around now, and it's not aimed at Valve.
Just no idea how much of an effect that would have.

It might need a little more than just a single petition to stop these credit card companies from overreaching.

PocketYoda 4 hours ago

Degenerate games now but whats next?

Hey Im Recon 4 hours ago

Originally posted by TGC> The Games Collector:
Apparently there's a petition going around now,

Just no idea how much of an effect that would have.

Zero.

Petitions can be ignored no matter how many fake names sign it. The person who created themself used a fake name.

Last edited by Hey Im Recon; 4 hours ago

Ben Lubar 4 hours ago

I'm not worried about Steam removing a few games from sale. I think it'd be cool if the fair access to banking act passes, but in this specific case, it's Steam removing some porn games that might get you banned from porn video websites if you posted a recording of them. I don't think that's too big of a loss. If they stop here, which is likely because this stance hasn't changed for decades, I'm perfectly happy with this outcome.

Crazy Tiger 4 hours ago

Originally posted by Lunar Fang:
Visa and Mastercard's own TOS supersedes Steam's TOS now.

That's just how a supply/service chain work. Companies have their own interests, priorities, preferences and such. And when you have something that is rather important, in the case of MC/Visa the financial network, you can pull leverage to force your terms.

Ultimately that goes two ways. Gamers can band together and get the leverage to force MC/Visa to reverse things, which is basically the same: forcing your terms. ;)

#10

Loot Hunter 4 hours ago

First they came for porn...

#11

TGC> The Games Collector 4 hours ago

It's ridiculous these credit card companies are doing this "to protect their brand", because their brand only looks unreliable if a retailer is subject to their whims.

#12

Realigo Actual 3 hours ago

Best way to send a message to leave Steam alone is to get a PaySafeCard and load with the bank or options that go outside of VISA/MasterCard/Paypal (which usually are things maintained by multiple banks that your bank supports).

#13

Xhoas 3 hours ago

Originally posted by Loot Hunter:
First they came for porn...

Then they came for Blue Archive and Stellar Blade...

#14

Aluvard 3 hours ago

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:
I'm not worried about Steam removing a few games from sale. I think it'd be cool if the fair access to banking act passes, but in this specific case, it's Steam removing some porn games that might get you banned from porn video websites if you posted a recording of them. I don't think that's too big of a loss. If they stop here, which is likely because this stance hasn't changed for decades, I'm perfectly happy with this outcome.

#15

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Date Posted: 20 Jul @ 5:50am

Posts: 37

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