Not sure why it's Gabe's fault, that MC and Visa are threatening to stop doing business with multiple stores.

Because what we need is another thread about how it's Gabe's fault... yay.

Gabe didn't have a choice, payment processors had him over a barrel with the ultimatum either remove these games or we will prevent Visa/Mastercard from being used to buy anything on the platform.

Since steam cannot function without the ability to sell games, it really had no choice.

Thread title:Gee thanks Gabe

Originally posted by boxythecat:

Now itch is following suit…things looking bleak for artistic freedom and expression but the usual useful idiots cheer on as their favorite thing (tm) has yet to be in the crosshairs of zealots.

That would be - thank you Visa and Mastercard.

Originally posted by Draug:

Gabe didn't have a choice, payment processors had him over a barrel with the ultimatum either remove these games or we will prevent Visa/Mastercard from being used to buy anything on the platform.

Since steam cannot function without the ability to sell games, it really had no choice.

Gabe dIDn't HAvE a CHoiCe.

If the biggest companies don't stand up against this unlawful monopoly, nothing will change.
Gabe had a choice. Itch.io had a choice to censor stuff so fast that they didn't even notify the users.
What do you think would happen if everyone declined to do business with Visa and Mastercard? Do you think governments would allow it if economy went into a halt?

No, they would break the illegal monopoly just as Japan is doing it right now.

Gabe had a choice.

Originally posted by Azradun:

Gabe had a choice.

When it comes to Visa and Mastercard and their revenue what percentage is from Valve? 0.1%? or less which is drop in the ocean that Visa and Mastercard would not miss.

Valve needs their services, they do not need Valve.


Here is a simple premise: You have a local store. 25 customers are waiting in line before your till with full shopping baskets. You have taken the stance to boycott Visa and Mastercard but they only have either Visa or Mastercard. Upon realising that you will not accept those cards they all put down their shopping basket at your till and walk out. How many days before you sweep your boycott under the carpet for income or are you willing to close down your store for good?

Originally posted by Azradun:

Gabe dIDn't HAvE a CHoiCe.

If the biggest companies don't stand up against this unlawful monopoly, nothing will change.
Gabe had a choice. Itch.io had a choice to censor stuff so fast that they didn't even notify the users.
What do you think would happen if everyone declined to do business with Visa and Mastercard? Do you think governments would allow it if economy went into a halt?

No, they would break the illegal monopoly just as Japan is doing it right now.

Gabe had a choice.

Then go lead by example.

Destroy all your cards and stop using any store which use Visa/Mastercard. Show Gabe and all the others how its done.

If YOU (the consumer) dont stand up for YOUR rights nobody else will.

Originally posted by Azradun:

Originally posted by Draug:

Gabe didn't have a choice, payment processors had him over a barrel with the ultimatum either remove these games or we will prevent Visa/Mastercard from being used to buy anything on the platform.

Since steam cannot function without the ability to sell games, it really had no choice.

Gabe dIDn't HAvE a CHoiCe.

If the biggest companies don't stand up against this unlawful monopoly, nothing will change.
Gabe had a choice. Itch.io had a choice to censor stuff so fast that they didn't even notify the users.
What do you think would happen if everyone declined to do business with Visa and Mastercard? Do you think governments would allow it if economy went into a halt?

No, they would break the illegal monopoly just as Japan is doing it right now.

Gabe had a choice.

So let's say steam said no we aren't going to change, what happens to steam with no way to buy product?

Yeah theoretically valve could sue the payment processors but that takes time and capital.

There is already legislation in the works and so it was likely deemed safer to bow for now since those games can be restored in the future.

https://usa.visa.com/contact-us.html
https://www.mastercard.com/us/en/personal/get-support.html

Originally posted by Azradun:

Originally posted by Draug:

Gabe didn't have a choice, payment processors had him over a barrel with the ultimatum either remove these games or we will prevent Visa/Mastercard from being used to buy anything on the platform.

Since steam cannot function without the ability to sell games, it really had no choice.

Gabe dIDn't HAvE a CHoiCe.

If the biggest companies don't stand up against this unlawful monopoly, nothing will change.
Gabe had a choice. Itch.io had a choice to censor stuff so fast that they didn't even notify the users.
What do you think would happen if everyone declined to do business with Visa and Mastercard? Do you think governments would allow it if economy went into a halt?

No, they would break the illegal monopoly just as Japan is doing it right now.

Gabe had a choice.

No he did not. You are greatly overestimating Valve's power and vastly underestimating the size of Visa/Mastercard and the banks behind them (their power too).

Itch statement provided something else, though. It showed us which game in particular started this avalanche.

I can imagine it is quite distressing for some of these women when they see some of these things, considering that it also distresses me when I see some of it.

Again, if people just switch to PaySafeCard, just for the rest of the year, the payment overlords will start dragging their feet on this really quick.

Originally posted by Azradun:

Originally posted by Draug:

Gabe didn't have a choice, payment processors had him over a barrel with the ultimatum either remove these games or we will prevent Visa/Mastercard from being used to buy anything on the platform.

Since steam cannot function without the ability to sell games, it really had no choice.

Gabe dIDn't HAvE a CHoiCe.

If the biggest companies don't stand up against this unlawful monopoly, nothing will change.
Gabe had a choice. Itch.io had a choice to censor stuff so fast that they didn't even notify the users.
What do you think would happen if everyone declined to do business with Visa and Mastercard? Do you think governments would allow it if economy went into a halt?

No, they would break the illegal monopoly just as Japan is doing it right now.

Gabe had a choice.

The funny thing here is people also claim Valve is a monopoly, but valve, visa & mc arent monopolies as there's plenty of global competition - it's just they're an older source and popular, both are also convenient which is not a monopoly. Also this is only because of incest/rape/pedophilic games which is of no realistic loss to the store or the other stores, it's such a small list of specific things visa/mc is not ok with having association. Realistically I doubt valve even cares about what's removed due to the content type and giving the app credit is likely just a PR move only. The only way a very tiny vocal amount of people will continue to get questionable "games" is for the laws to change, but for the usa that could likely attempt set a standard of businesses and individuals having to serve everyones request even if they don't want to, and there's already been SCOTUS decisions against that sort of thing.

Itch.io was not following Valve's lead. They were targeted the same way by Collective Shout and Visa/MasterCard.

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

The funny thing here is people also claim Valve is a monopoly, but valve, visa & mc arent monopolies as there's plenty of global competition - it's just they're an older source and popular, both are also convenient which is not a monopoly. Also this is only because of incest/rape/pedophilic games which is of no realistic loss to the store or the other stores, it's such a small list of specific things visa/mc is not ok with having association. Realistically I doubt valve even cares about what's removed due to the content type and giving the app credit is likely just a PR move only. The only way a very tiny vocal amount of people will continue to get questionable "games" is for the laws to change, but for the usa that could likely attempt set a standard of businesses and individuals having to serve everyones request even if they don't want to, and there's already been SCOTUS decisions against that sort of thing.

You don't have to be a full monopoly to be able to exert the kind of control that a monopoly can, as long as your competition is not willing to take a stance against whatever you're pushing, you can basically set the rules however you like. That is the issue and something worth criticizing. I like Steam as a platform, but only an idiot thinks a lack of healthy competition is a good thing. But that's another topic.

And the content itself being lost is not the issue at hand. It's about credit card companies exerting control over the platform and telling players what they can and cannot buy. It is unlikely to stop at silly incest games.

Furthermore, those companies are not bothered by the association, they only took this stance because a loud-mouthed vocal minority of pearl-clutching moral high-horsing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wanted to feel powerful and make a change for their own egos. It is a common tactic of those who feel their power slipping away to lash out and concern troll where they can. They do not care about the topic at hand, they're just looking for a victim. Whether or not you like the content, you cannot seriously argue that a video game about rape is any more dangerous for the human condition than the thousands upon thousands of video games where you gut and brutally murder characters.

...and on that note, what's to stop them from saying "God of War 3 is too violent!" and start banning all sales of that on storefronts? Targeting Sony and others. It's extremely violent even by video game standards, after all.

Are you okay with that? Do you even care about God of War 3? Probably not.

But I do. Not because I love that game, idgaf about it, but because I don't like people stepping in and telling me where I can spend my money. That's my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ decision.

Originally posted by Azradun:

Originally posted by Draug:

Gabe didn't have a choice, payment processors had him over a barrel with the ultimatum either remove these games or we will prevent Visa/Mastercard from being used to buy anything on the platform.

Since steam cannot function without the ability to sell games, it really had no choice.

Gabe dIDn't HAvE a CHoiCe.

If the biggest companies don't stand up against this unlawful monopoly, nothing will change.
Gabe had a choice. Itch.io had a choice to censor stuff so fast that they didn't even notify the users.
What do you think would happen if everyone declined to do business with Visa and Mastercard? Do you think governments would allow it if economy went into a halt?

No, they would break the illegal monopoly just as Japan is doing it right now.

Gabe had a choice.

Pretty much this. Thanks.