Rule 15 - A more honest version :: Steam Discussions

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NullPointerExcy 30 Jul @ 3:07am

Rule 15 - A more honest version

Hey Valve,

just a heads up, why not change Rule 15 to something like:

"We remove content if Visa/Mastercard/PayPal threaten to block our payment processing, because otherwise we wouldn’t be able to sell games."

That would be far more transparent and might reduce the backlash a bit.
But there will still be criticism, because external companies like Visa or Mastercard shouldn’t dictate what people are allowed to consume.

Question

Did you phrase Rule 15 so vaguely to protect yourselves legally?
It’s understandable that Valve wouldn’t be able to operate if payment providers refuse to cooperate, but right now it feels like you’re taking the blame and alienating your community by appearing to bow to these companies.

This could just be the beginning, and other media industries might follow because they see that it works. Movies, visual novels, anime, etc., could all be censored simply because money talks. No money, no rights, is that really the way we want things to go?

Example

Let’s say I develop a fantasy game that criticizes politics and capitalism, not even directly naming real companies, but clearly pointing out the darker side of greed and corporate control. If payment processors like PayPal or Visa don’t like being portrayed in a negative light, they could simply refuse to process payments for my game.
In other words: A few private companies would have the power to make my game disappear, regardless of whether players want it or not.

P.S.:
It’s good that truly disturbing content (e.g., incest, rape) is removed, but the way this is being handled feels... disappointing, to say the least.

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Showing 1-15 of 50 comments

TGC> The Games Collector 30 Jul @ 3:10am

Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
This could just be the beginning, and other media industries might follow because they see that it works. Movies, visual novels, anime, etc., could all be censored simply because money talks. No money, no rights, is that really the way we want things to go?

Pretty sure that's already been the case for a while with many streaming services.

NullPointerExcy 30 Jul @ 11:58am

Originally posted by TGC> The Games Collector:
Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
This could just be the beginning, and other media industries might follow because they see that it works. Movies, visual novels, anime, etc., could all be censored simply because money talks. No money, no rights, is that really the way we want things to go?
Pretty sure that's already been the case for a while with many streaming services.

Yeah, true, but right now it's becoming more and more the “standard”, and that’s what’s worrying.
A lot of people just accept it as long as they’re not directly affected. And yeah, I know my post probably won’t change anything, but I still think more people need to speak up, even if it feels like shouting into the void.
Because silence is exactly what makes this kind of quiet control possible.

Nx Machina 30 Jul @ 12:10pm

Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
Hey Valve,

just a heads up, why not change Rule 15 to something like:

"We remove content if Visa/Mastercard/PayPal threaten to block our payment processing, because otherwise we wouldn’t be able to sell games."

Visa and Mastercard are not blocking Valve's ability to sell games on the platform, they are stating they will not process payments for very specific adult content hence why Valve removed 100 games which had that content.

Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial 30 Jul @ 12:25pm

Originally posted by Nx Machina:
Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
Hey Valve,

just a heads up, why not change Rule 15 to something like:

"We remove content if Visa/Mastercard/PayPal threaten to block our payment processing, because otherwise we wouldn’t be able to sell games."

Visa and Mastercard are not blocking Valve's ability to sell games on the platform, they are stating they will not process payments for very specific adult content hence why Valve removed 100 games which had that content.

You contradict yourself. And it's not only about adult content they already targeted horror games too.

Boblin the Goblin 30 Jul @ 12:26pm

Originally posted by Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial:
Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Visa and Mastercard are not blocking Valve's ability to sell games on the platform, they are stating they will not process payments for very specific adult content hence why Valve removed 100 games which had that content.
You contradict yourself. And it's not only about adult content they already targeted horror games too.

Mouthwashing was removed last year.

NullPointerExcy 30 Jul @ 12:26pm

Originally posted by Nx Machina:
Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
Hey Valve,

just a heads up, why not change Rule 15 to something like:

"We remove content if Visa/Mastercard/PayPal threaten to block our payment processing, because otherwise we wouldn’t be able to sell games."

Visa and Mastercard are not blocking Valve's ability to sell games on the platform, they are stating they will not process payments for very specific adult content hence why Valve removed 100 games which had that content.

Yeah, not yet, but that's exactly the issue.
Take a look at Rule 15:

"Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content."

source: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboarding

That phrasing is vague enough to allow any kind of external pressure to influence content removal.
So if, purely hypothetically, Visa, Mastercard, or PayPal ever decide they don't like a game or movie that criticizes capitalism, or mocks large corporations (maybe even themselves), they could just say:

“This violates our standards.”

And under Rule 15, Valve has already set the precedent: "If the payment processor doesn’t like it, it goes."

That’s the slippery slope people are worried about, not just what’s removed now, but what could be removed next.

Mad Scientist 30 Jul @ 12:31pm

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Originally posted by Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial:
You contradict yourself. And it's not only about adult content they already targeted horror games too.
Mouthwashing was removed last year.

Funny itch still redirects to steam, kinda defeats how people claimed it was "removed because of visa/mc"
Still for sale on steam.

ThorF 30 Jul @ 12:32pm

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Originally posted by Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial:
You contradict yourself. And it's not only about adult content they already targeted horror games too.
Mouthwashing was removed last year.

and about Vile: Exhumed ?

Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial 30 Jul @ 12:37pm

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:
Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Mouthwashing was removed last year.
Funny itch still redirects to steam, kinda defeats how people claimed it was "removed because of visa/mc"
Still for sale on steam.

I didn't know about that site till this happened. Just heard that from Asmongold.

Last edited by Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial; 30 Jul @ 12:38pm

NullPointerExcy 30 Jul @ 12:44pm

Plot twist

This entire thread is actually just an early access demo for a new social experiment game:

“Comment Section: Collapse Protocol, Powered by Rule 15™ (Not Rule 34, I tried... at least.)”

Key features:

- Conflicting Facts™ mechanic
- Contradiction Expansion Pack
- Mouthwashing Minigames (requires fast reflexes)
- 8v8 Ranked Forum PvP with optional Passive Aggression Mode™

Warning: Contains microtransactions for moral superiority and edit battles.
Warning 2: Valve may remove this... because Visa doesn’t like it.

I’ll send you my PayPal later so you can thank me. xD

#10

Nx Machina 30 Jul @ 12:47pm

Originally posted by Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial:
You contradict yourself. And it's not only about adult content they already targeted horror games too.

Where is the contradiction when Valve are selling games on the platform?

There is a vast selection available here: https://steamhost.cn

#11

Boblin the Goblin 30 Jul @ 12:48pm

Originally posted by ThorF:
Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Mouthwashing was removed last year.
and about Vile: Exhumed ?

Looks like it was just denied because of content. It had been in limbo for over a month. I would guess it has to do with real pictures of what looks like self-harm.

#12

Nx Machina 30 Jul @ 12:50pm

Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
Yeah, not yet, but that's exactly the issue.
Take a look at Rule 15:

"Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content."

source: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboarding

That phrasing is vague enough to allow any kind of external pressure to influence content removal.
So if, purely hypothetically, Visa, Mastercard, or PayPal ever decide they don't like a game or movie that criticizes capitalism, or mocks large corporations (maybe even themselves), they could just say:

“This violates our standards.”

And under Rule 15, Valve has already set the precedent: "If the payment processor doesn’t like it, it goes."

That’s the slippery slope people are worried about, not just what’s removed now, but what could be removed next.

Visa and Mastercard specifically state what content they will not process. You should look at their terms rather than rely on "slippery slope".

#13

Minera Cosepeliu Ticela Mondial 30 Jul @ 1:01pm

Originally posted by Nx Machina:
Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
Yeah, not yet, but that's exactly the issue.
Take a look at Rule 15:

"Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content."

source: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboarding

That phrasing is vague enough to allow any kind of external pressure to influence content removal.
So if, purely hypothetically, Visa, Mastercard, or PayPal ever decide they don't like a game or movie that criticizes capitalism, or mocks large corporations (maybe even themselves), they could just say:

“This violates our standards.”

And under Rule 15, Valve has already set the precedent: "If the payment processor doesn’t like it, it goes."

That’s the slippery slope people are worried about, not just what’s removed now, but what could be removed next.

Visa and Mastercard specifically state what content they will not process. You should look at their terms rather than rely on "slippery slope".

You should check what Visa said about this.

#14

NullPointerExcy 30 Jul @ 1:05pm

Originally posted by Nx Machina:
Originally posted by NullPointerExcy:
Yeah, not yet, but that's exactly the issue.
Take a look at Rule 15:

"Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content."

source: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboarding

That phrasing is vague enough to allow any kind of external pressure to influence content removal.
So if, purely hypothetically, Visa, Mastercard, or PayPal ever decide they don't like a game or movie that criticizes capitalism, or mocks large corporations (maybe even themselves), they could just say:

“This violates our standards.”

And under Rule 15, Valve has already set the precedent: "If the payment processor doesn’t like it, it goes."

That’s the slippery slope people are worried about, not just what’s removed now, but what could be removed next.

Visa and Mastercard specifically state what content they will not process. You should look at their terms rather than rely on "slippery slope".

That’s fair!
Would’ve been helpful to have a source, but I found one here:

https://www.mastercard.com/us/en/news-and-trends/perspectives/2021/protecting-our-network-protecting-you-preventing-illegal-adult-content-on-our-network.html

I understand that the current restrictions are about specific adult content.

But my concern remains: once content moderation is tied to payment approval, where’s the limit?
Today it’s one thing, tomorrow... maybe something else deemed too "risky".

Here an example with the Apple App Store Censorship
- Apple enforces rules that apps must align with its “brand values”, a term that’s deliberately vague and flexible.
- Over the years, apps with political or LGBTQ+ content have been removed, often due to government pressure. Not because they broke any laws, but because they didn’t fit Apple’s internal standards.

So even when companies define their content standards, history shows that enforcement can quietly expand beyond what was originally promised, and that’s exactly the kind of shift people are worried about with Rule 15.

#15

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Date Posted: 30 Jul @ 3:07am

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