If Valve is telling the truth and payment processors directly cited Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7, then Mastercard clearly has a role in what content gets blocked. Their denial sounds like damage control. If they are enforcing vague brand risk clauses to limit what games can be sold, then it is fair for consumers to push back. Contacting them directly and asking for clarification on how Rule 5.12.7 is applied is a reasonable step.

So MasterCard says they didn't do any pressuring, Valve stated that they got no pressure from MasterCard but from other payment processors instead... .which means Valves own statement actually backs up what MasterCard has said

So where exactly is the lie?

Also everyone's brand rules include things about not doing anything illegal. Rules about not doing anything illegal are for both brand image and for protection against liability, which is why they have rules for content they feel can potentially cross the line into being illegal.

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

So MasterCard says they didn't do any pressuring, Valve stated that they got no pressure from MasterCard but from other payment processors instead... .which means Valves own statement actually backs up what MasterCard has said

So where exactly is the lie?

You could work for Fox News

Payment processors specifically cited Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand

Originally posted by Obi WanX Konami:

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

So MasterCard says they didn't do any pressuring, Valve stated that they got no pressure from MasterCard but from other payment processors instead... .which means Valves own statement actually backs up what MasterCard has said

So where exactly is the lie?

Payment processors specifically cited Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand

And? MasterCard said they didn't do the pressuring, and Valve said MasterCard didn't do the pressuring, so if MasterCard is lying then that means Valve is lying too.

Also everyone's brand rules include things about not doing anything illegal. Rules about not doing anything illegal are for both brand image and for protection against liability, which is why they have rules for content they feel can potentially cross the line into being illegal.

MasterCard didn't contact Valve. Other payment processors did though, who follow the rules that MasterCard has and want Valve to follow the same rules.

MasterCard didn't lie, unless you are willing to say Valve is lying too.

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Originally posted by Obi WanX Konami:

Payment processors specifically cited Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand

And? MasterCard said they didn't do the pressuring, and Valve said MasterCard didn't do the pressuring, so if MasterCard is lying then that means Valve is lying too.

Also everyone's brand rules include things about not doing anything illegal. Rules about not doing anything illegal are for both brand image and for protection against liability, which is why they have rules for content they feel can potentially cross the line into being illegal.

MasterCard didn't contact Valve. Other payment processors did though, who follow the rules that MasterCard has and want Valve to follow the same rules.

MasterCard didn't lie, unless you are willing to say Valve is lying too.

Have you been following the news?

Valve hasn't said that Mastercord isn't responsible. Your peddling a lie by saying that.

Valve has stated they tried to contact Mastercard and got no response.

I do wonder why they wouldn't respond directly to a billion dollar company? Maybe because they know they can't outright lie to Valve otherwise lawyers & negative press would get involved so instead they choose silence.

Collective Shout claimed responsibility for contacting Mastercard & Visa. They sent Mastercard thousands of emails with their signed petition from 70,000 of their religious feminist members calling for games to be removed.

Mastercard tells payment processors they work with what games need removed citing Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand. Payment processors pass on that information to Valve.

Valve has stated that Mastercard refuses to communicate with them directly.

Valve has stated payment processors are all citing Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand. These are not the payment processors rules. It's Mastercards rules they are citing.

Everyone has pointed fingers at Mastercard as the responsible party.

Steam forums and contrarians.

If you think Mastercard isn't responsible I have a bridge to sell you.

I keep saying this: Saying you don't believe something doesnt make it not true or somehow a lie. If the banks that use mastercard all say "uh, no, we were told explicitly to find material and remove it," then we have one of two is lying, ♥♥♥♥ em both unless they have the courage to show receipts/go to court.

But as it stands there's plenty of explinations. MC and Visa, after receiving collective shouts messages, sent a generic, "just in case, ill remind everyone of the rules you agreed to,"(whether it's enforcable or not) and the places got jumpy. It would be sent such a message knowing it get banks jumpy. It would be the former and MC doesn't want to undermine it's own position without a very careful purpose built response to Valve. It could be MC just trusting their customers to follow the rules and say "eh, work it out with them," without giving that power in writing.

The companies and banks blamed here -can- fight back and defend themselves, but unless they call MC a liar, I think I'm going to side with MC. Both banks and credit companies are in the same space to me, so I dont trust either more. And if one is willing to "no me," and other refuses....well...I can guess why.

Originally posted by Roundabout:

Steam forums and contrarians. :namelessone:

If you think Mastercard isn't responsible I have a bridge to sell you.

Ok, then Valve is lying too.

Originally posted by Obi WanX Konami:

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

And? MasterCard said they didn't do the pressuring, and Valve said MasterCard didn't do the pressuring, so if MasterCard is lying then that means Valve is lying too.

Also everyone's brand rules include things about not doing anything illegal. Rules about not doing anything illegal are for both brand image and for protection against liability, which is why they have rules for content they feel can potentially cross the line into being illegal.

MasterCard didn't contact Valve. Other payment processors did though, who follow the rules that MasterCard has and want Valve to follow the same rules.

MasterCard didn't lie, unless you are willing to say Valve is lying too.

Have you been following the news?

Valve hasn't said that Mastercord isn't responsible. Your peddling a lie by saying that.

Valve has stated they tried to contact Mastercard and got no response.

I do wonder why they wouldn't respond directly to a billion dollar company? Maybe because they know they can't outright lie to Valve otherwise lawyers & negative press would get involved so instead they choose silence.

Collective Shout claimed responsibility for contacting Mastercard & Visa. They sent Mastercard thousands of emails with their signed petition from 70,000 of their religious feminist members calling for games to be removed.

Mastercard tells payment processors they work with what games need removed citing Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand. Payment processors pass on that information to Valve.

Valve has stated that Mastercard refuses to communicate with them directly.

Valve has stated payment processors are all citing Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand. These are not the payment processors rules. It's Mastercards rules they are citing.

Everyone has pointed fingers at Mastercard as the responsible party.

already explained it to you. Either Mastercard and Valve are lying, or neither of them are lying.

I say it's neither, I say there's several means of congruity. Besides, frankly I dont trust Valve either so...

Never assume malice when incompetence will do. Multiple large corporations with rules open to interpretation, and employees who didn't write the rules and can't recite them by heart, what do you think that leads to? Calculated malice? Or a comedy of errors where no one feels responsible or believes that they are?

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Originally posted by Roundabout:

Steam forums and contrarians.

If you think Mastercard isn't responsible I have a bridge to sell you.

Ok, then Valve is lying too.

Originally posted by Obi WanX Konami:

Have you been following the news?

Valve hasn't said that Mastercord isn't responsible. Your peddling a lie by saying that.

Valve has stated they tried to contact Mastercard and got no response.

I do wonder why they wouldn't respond directly to a billion dollar company? Maybe because they know they can't outright lie to Valve otherwise lawyers & negative press would get involved so instead they choose silence.

Collective Shout claimed responsibility for contacting Mastercard & Visa. They sent Mastercard thousands of emails with their signed petition from 70,000 of their religious feminist members calling for games to be removed.

Mastercard tells payment processors they work with what games need removed citing Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand. Payment processors pass on that information to Valve.

Valve has stated that Mastercard refuses to communicate with them directly.

Valve has stated payment processors are all citing Mastercard’s Rule 5.12.7 and risk to the Mastercard brand. These are not the payment processors rules. It's Mastercards rules they are citing.

Everyone has pointed fingers at Mastercard as the responsible party.

already explained it to you. Either Mastercard and Valve are lying, or neither of them are lying.

Games get delisted from Steam and other online stores with Valve pointing the finger at Visa, Mastercard & payment processors.

As bad press builds up in the media Mastercard deny's responsibility.

Collective Shout brag about contacting Visa & mastercard to get games delisted.

Payment processors start citing Mastercards rules and the Mastercard brand with a list of games that need to be removed from Steam & other online stores.

Valve tried contacting Mastercard because Valve belives Mastercard is responsible as all the payment processors are citing a specfic rule provided to them by Mastercard.

Mastercard ignores Valves communication. (I wonder why?)

Yet somehow you say Valve is lying when EVERYONE is pointing the finger at mastercard?

Insane.

And is anyone actually surprised?"

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

So MasterCard says they didn't do any pressuring, Valve stated that they got no pressure from MasterCard but from other payment processors instead... .which means Valves own statement actually backs up what MasterCard has said

So where exactly is the lie?

Also everyone's brand rules include things about not doing anything illegal. Rules about not doing anything illegal are for both brand image and for protection against liability, which is why they have rules for content they feel can potentially cross the line into being illegal.

The payment processors answer to MasterCard. Valve reached out to MasterCard and the payment processors responded, not MasterCard.

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

So MasterCard says they didn't do any pressuring, Valve stated that they got no pressure from MasterCard but from other payment processors instead... .which means Valves own statement actually backs up what MasterCard has said

So where exactly is the lie?

Also everyone's brand rules include things about not doing anything illegal. Rules about not doing anything illegal are for both brand image and for protection against liability, which is why they have rules for content they feel can potentially cross the line into being illegal.

The payment processors answer to MasterCard. Valve reached out to MasterCard and the payment processors responded, not MasterCard.

Are you suggesting these banks arent independent banks merely using Mastercard as a middleman but instead just ... Visa. Because I think if you told Chase they aren't Chase bank but are Visa/MC under a shell name you'd get angry or confused stares. And did you read the quote? Valve reached out to Mastercard, and got -nothing,- the processors reached out first and spoke "we think MC would say this, so we're acting pre-emptively."

These are different companies dude, that's the difficulty here

Originally posted by videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

The payment processors answer to MasterCard. Valve reached out to MasterCard and the payment processors responded, not MasterCard.

Are you suggesting these banks arent independent banks merely using Mastercard as a middleman but instead just ... Visa. Because I think if you told Chase they aren't Chase bank but are Visa/MC under a shell name you'd get angry or confused stares. And did you read the quote? Valve reached out to Mastercard, and got -nothing,- the processors reached out first and spoke "we think MC would say this, so we're acting pre-emptively."

These are different companies dude, that's the difficulty here

Banks also use payment processors for their cards. You generally have the logo of the major payment processor printed on the card. E.g. for my cards it is Mastercard with their logo printed on the card next to the name of my bank.