Alternative censorship issue take

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Rykari 7 Aug @ 10:08am

Boiling down the issue to it's core form as I see it: Porn games (let's just blanket label them as what they are) are casually being sold in the same space along side all other games like it's a work day. It's as bizarre as the practice we used to have in England 10 years ago with tits in the news paper. It begs the question: Why was this ever a thing?

And yes some games have nudity, sex scenes and in some cases, glances at Larian studios Questionable scenes involving a furry shape shifter. But let's face it, none of these at their core are what's triggered this issue. This isn't about adult content in video games, and devs + producers already have a good balance in this regard.

My perspective is that valve has adopted a far too casual implementation of porn games in the wrong space and it's now back-lashing. It is due to this casual implementation that I take the stance 'well they kind of had this coming tbh'

Personally, I think steam should move, instead of remove 'Porn games', to a sub-platform or sub-domain that is designed for porn games. This then creates a clear delineation between a valid / serious gaming platform and a 'porn platform'. Call it 'Salve' or maybe 'Varse (virtual arse)', I really don't care.

And whilst I don't agree with the censorship choices, I do believe that steam as a platform would be better without pornographic content. Period. I just don't think that it's the right space for it.

What does everyone else think?

Last edited by Rykari; 7 Aug @ 10:18am

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Showing 1-15 of 82 comments

Chika Ogiue 7 Aug @ 10:20am

Steam as a platform would be better without all the content that glorifies and celebrates violence.

V-Bro - The Titan's Driver 7 Aug @ 10:25am

It won't matter.
You move all the high adult stuff to a sub-platform? Then the moral supremacists will just target and kill that whole sub-platform, and then turn their eyes to the main platform anyway.

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
Steam as a platform would be better without all the content that glorifies and celebrates violence.

See what I mean?

Besides, haven't you been noticing what's going on around the world?

- UK Online *Surveillance* Act targeting far more than adult content.
- EU wanting to scan ALL private conversations.
- Youtube using AI to check your age.
- Google positioning itself so that it can set up its own age verification program that everyone else can easily use (and that's why it's not protesting).

This isn't about the porn. Porn was just the catalyst to start it all.
They'll just censor the non-porn anyway. We're well on our way to that right now, as itch.io has proven. They're targeting MUCH more than actual 'adult' themes.

Yeah, I'm the weird guy sticking up for the weird porn games I never even heard of beforehand.

Because I know it's NOT the only or final target, and I'm not going to wait until MY games are targeted.

Last edited by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver; 7 Aug @ 10:26am

Chronocide 7 Aug @ 10:26am

Originally posted by Rykari:
Boiling down the issue to it's core form as I see it: Porn games (let's just blanket label them as what they are) are casually being sold in the same space along side all other games like it's a work day. It's as bizarre as the practice we used to have in England 10 years ago with tits in the news paper. I think the current situation leads to the question of why was this ever a thing?

That's half of the issue.

The full issue is that a platform that doesn't sell porn at all, firmly established their business and then after over a decade of censoring porn from their platform, quietly starting allowing porn on their site without informing their business partners or even taking the terms of conditions of the other businesses into consideration.

xBCxRangers 7 Aug @ 10:28am

You're right.

Personally, if these developers want to sell adult content, they should sell them on adult sites. Or come with their own site where ID needs to be produced, and i'm sure they will have no issues.

But not on a site for 13 years old to enter. That was never gonna fly, and it just seems the banks caught up with Steam and finally took a stand. But again, if not them, it would be the Government.

And so games like that can have their place on the dark web or otherwise adult websites.

Chika Ogiue 7 Aug @ 10:30am

Originally posted by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:
It won't matter.
You move all the high adult stuff to a sub-platform? Then the moral supremacists will just target and kill that whole sub-platform, and then turn their eyes to the main platform anyway.

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
Steam as a platform would be better without all the content that glorifies and celebrates violence.

See what I mean?

I see my point skirted around you sideways, did a backflip, and landed so far across the room, you missed its intent by a mile.

Originally posted by Chronocide:
The full issue is that a platform that doesn't sell porn at all, firmly established their business and then after over a decade of censoring porn from their platform, quietly starting allowing porn on their site without informing their business partners or even taking the terms of conditions of the other businesses into consideration.

Which isn't entirely right either when you consider Valve all too happily sold games like The Witcher which featured nudity and sex long before they allowed other games that focused on that part of the human condition.

Last edited by Chika Ogiue; 7 Aug @ 10:33am

V-Bro - The Titan's Driver 7 Aug @ 10:31am

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
Originally posted by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:
It won't matter.
You move all the high adult stuff to a sub-platform? Then the moral supremacists will just target and kill that whole sub-platform, and then turn their eyes to the main platform anyway.

See what I mean?

I see my point skirted around you sideways, did a backflip, and landed so far across the room, you missed its intent by a mile.

My bad. I sometimes can't tell when someone is sarcastic through a joke comment.

But doesn't that also kind of also prove the point, too? Someone else will come along and post that with 100% seriousness. The internet is weird like that, now.

Last edited by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver; 7 Aug @ 10:34am

Rykari 7 Aug @ 10:35am

Originally posted by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:
It won't matter.
You move all the high adult stuff to a sub-platform? Then the moral supremacists will just target and kill that whole sub-platform, and then turn their eyes to the main platform anyway.

Besides, haven't you been noticing what's going on around the world?

- UK Online *Surveillance* Act targeting far more than adult content.
- EU wanting to scan ALL private conversations.
- Youtube using AI to check your age.
- Google positioning itself so that it can set up its own age verification program that everyone else can easily use (and that's why it's not protesting).

This isn't about the porn. Porn was just the catalyst to start it all.
They'll just censor the non-porn anyway. We're well on our way to that right now, as itch.io has proven. They're targeting MUCH more than actual 'adult' themes.

Yeah, I'm the weird guy sticking up for the weird porn games I never even heard of beforehand.

Because I know it's NOT the only or final target, and I'm not going to wait until MY games are targeted.

From everything you've just said, you're not weird and you're not sticking up for porn games. You're sticking up for freedom of expression and speech. You're just anti-censorship and pushing against government overreach.

I think what a lot of people are failing to realise is one simple fact: Time and Place

Moral supremacists might target the sub-platform but they're far less likely to care if it's properly regulated because there are easier targets. What's more, if time and place are correct, you just politely tell the moral supremacists to leave and they cannot do anything about it.

The only reason these things have validity is because, quite frankly, the place is wrong imo.

As for all those bullet points you mentioned: The second bullet point onwards is a complete waste of time and you shouldn't be worried about it. Keep pushing back in the right space and they'll give up.

as for the UK, Keir Starmer and labour gov as a whole has repeatedly pushed legislation through without going through the proper channels or debates. Many are already up in arms about it and to be quite honest I really don't think it's a huge issue because they're going to be smacked down.

Even if none of what I said is true, people will always come up with workarounds. VPNs to countries that don't have the same laws and people using garys mod to fool age verification are classic examples of why none of this stupidity will work

Chika Ogiue 7 Aug @ 10:36am

Originally posted by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:
My bad. I sometimes can't tell when someone is sarcastic through a joke comment.

No worries. I'm just tired of this double standard where violence is considered child-friendly entertainment but the mere mention of a fiction breast, let alone anything else, in experiences firmly aimed at adults is enough to demand the death sentence.

Rykari 7 Aug @ 10:37am

Originally posted by Chronocide:
Originally posted by Rykari:
Boiling down the issue to it's core form as I see it: Porn games (let's just blanket label them as what they are) are casually being sold in the same space along side all other games like it's a work day. It's as bizarre as the practice we used to have in England 10 years ago with tits in the news paper. I think the current situation leads to the question of why was this ever a thing?
That's half of the issue.

The full issue is that a platform that doesn't sell porn at all, firmly established their business and then after over a decade of censoring porn from their platform, quietly starting allowing porn on their site without informing their business partners or even taking the terms of conditions of the other businesses into consideration.

You've just reiterated what I've said in a separate section of my OP: Their casual implementation is what's causing the issue. It's not the right space for it imo

Rykari 7 Aug @ 10:40am

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
Originally posted by V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:
My bad. I sometimes can't tell when someone is sarcastic through a joke comment.

No worries. I'm just tired of this double standard where violence is considered child-friendly entertainment but the mere mention of a fiction breast, let alone anything else, in experiences firmly aimed at adults is enough to demand the death sentence.

I didn't really want to comment on this because I don't really know where you're coming from.

I did clearly state 'porn games' and also in the OP make the clear distinction that I'm not talking about adult content in a video game (like witcher 3, bg3, etc etc).

Also, I don't really understand why you even bring it up because it's been scientifically proven that violent video games do not induce violent tenancies. I can link you the studies if interested but you seem smart so a few google searches will show you if you're interested

#10

Start_Running 7 Aug @ 10:46am

Originally posted by Rykari:
Boiling down the issue to it's core form as I see it: Porn games (let's just blanket label them as what they are) are casually being sold in the same space along side all other games like it's a work day. It's as bizarre as the practice we used to have in England 10 years ago with tits in the news paper. It begs the question: Why was this ever a thing?

What's so odd about that. I mean Amazon sells Cocomelon Toys and Dildos.
Video Rental; stores had R rated gore fest two aisles away from Disney Princess movies.

Originally posted by Rykari:
And yes some games have nudity, sex scenes and in some cases, glances at Larian studios Questionable scenes involving a furry shape shifter. But let's face it, none of these at their core are what's triggered this issue. This isn't about adult content in video games, and devs + producers already have a good balance in this regard.

Oh it started long before those things m8.

Originally posted by Rykari:
My perspective is that valve has adopted a far too casual implementation of porn games in the wrong space and it's now back-lashing. It is due to this casual implementation that I take the stance 'well they kind of had this coming tbh'

Valve to a a 'you do you' approach. They gave users the ability to filter out porn, sexual content, adult content etc. Turned those filters ON BY DEFAULT and left it at that. You as the user ghave to decide whether or not you see those porn games. Turn the filters on a as they are by default and you'll basically like an invisble wall. You don't see the porn, unless someone else screams about it at you.

I mean lets be frank, the people behind this censorship don;'t want that sort of thing sold ANYWHERE.

Originally posted by Rykari:
Personally, I think steam should move, instead of remove 'Porn games', to a sub-platform or sub-domain that is designed for porn games. This then creates a clear delineation between a valid / serious gaming platform and a 'porn platform'. Call it 'Salve' or maybe 'Varse (virtual arse)', I really don't care.

I love how you insinuate that porn games are some how invalid.
Also. this kinda thing already exists. If you want steam to be as you described then guess what. jturn those filters on and enjoy.

Last edited by Start_Running; 7 Aug @ 10:47am

#11

Chronocide 7 Aug @ 10:51am

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
Which isn't entirely right either when you consider Valve all too happily sold games like The Witcher which featured nudity and sex long before they allowed other games that focused on that part of the human condition.

So, and this is more of a technical issue, but games like the witcher and mass effect are not considered pornography. The idea is that they aren't because the primary focus of the game is not the player's arousal. I agree they should be lumped in with the porn, but that's where the legal line is drawn.

That said, we also have obscenity laws, which is not considered to be protected free speech according to the supreme court of the USA.

I will also note that nudity is not universally considered porn or required for something to be considered porn. There's entirely text based pornography and nudity that can even be pushed on children (for a UK example, GW's Great Unclean One is not wearing clothes. Nothing sexual about it, but it's a toy that is sold to minors in the UK, well, minors with rich parents).

Last edited by Chronocide; 7 Aug @ 10:52am

#12

Dork_Stalker_310 7 Aug @ 10:52am

First of all, adult video games aren't really visible in lists and recommendations unless you toggle a search option.

The second topic I think is interesting is what we consider psychologically damaging and not. For some reason sex and nudity is treated differently in media than violence, even extreme forms. I'm not defending removal of rape and p*dophilic games, obviously, because this things are examples of sexual violence. But even consentual nudity is treated like something inherintly weird.

Seeing some hentai puzzle game is way over the line, but seeing how Sub-Zero rips out someone's spine in graphic detail is not? Seing a woman with naked breasts is traumatic, but setting someone on fire or bludgeoning their head to bloody pulp in Far Cry or Red Dead Redemption 2 is not? Why is there a collective agreement that naked bodies, especially women bodies, are somehow less acceptable than mutalation and death?

#13

Chronocide 7 Aug @ 10:58am

Originally posted by Rykari:
And whilst I don't agree with the censorship choices, I do believe that steam as a platform would be better without pornographic content. Period. I just don't think that it's the right space for it

Personally, I have no issue with porn on the internet, if anything, I feel the internet would be hollow and lifeless without that sort of thing on the internet. The internet is a legal no-man's land.

I have issue with porn being on steam. I want it gone from steam.

I don't feel like steam marketed itself to me as a porn selling platform when I bought into steam.

And I feel like that they didn't even ask their users if they wanted porn on steam when steam switched from their anti-porn stance to their pro-porn stance.

I'm aware that steam can do whatever and it's my choice to stay or leave, but those are my issues/preferences with porn on steam.

Last edited by Chronocide; 7 Aug @ 11:00am

#14

76561198407601200 7 Aug @ 10:59am

Originally posted by Rykari:
Boiling down the issue to it's core form as I see it: Porn games (let's just blanket label them as what they are)

Isn't blanket labeling exactly why people are having a hard time comprehending what games are removed? Rape and Pedo themed games are the focus, somehow that important detail gets overlooked by those desperate to keep them on here.

#15

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Date Posted: 7 Aug @ 10:08am

Posts: 82

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