1) Don't know what this has to do with Valve, they can't actively control how players behave

2) Not a fan of the lootboxes, but don't think it makes them evil for trying

3) You can't prove any "review shenanigans" are happening. Report what you feel is breaching the ToS to Valve and move on

4) "Basically a monopoly" is not the same as actually being one. They offer the largest library of games and more services for both developers and players alike than any other platform. They're not perfect, but unless another platform can do what they do and more, this doesn't make them evil.

Online forum posters, driven by manufactured-controversy/outrage/conspiracy "influencers", are wildly overdramatic.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

Collecting public opinions, here’s my take:

- EOMM in Dota2, CS:GO (back when it existed), Deadlock (at least a year ago it was in) — this kinda MM just makes clueless players hate on each other and breeds the most toxic communities.

- One of the first to push lootboxes, straight up exploiting people’s mental vulnerabilities.

- Review shenanigans — just look at the reviews of all those “mostly positive” and up games, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on.

- Steam’s basically a monopoly, just like Windows. As much as I dislike Xbox/EGS and the rest, competition’s always healthy. Valve takes one of the highest cuts (30%) from devs. More money going to the store = less money for the folks actually making the game. This + the review stuff just stagnates the industry and pushes out cash grabs.

On the flip side, Valve has made some great games (HFs, Portal, etc.). Even Dota and Deadlock (without EOMM) could’ve been great.

Who knows, maybe HF3 dropping tomorrow will change the whole impression.

I can't help but notice a general pattern of many submitted threads, especially revolving around reviews and grounded 2, some other games too, without having them.

Is this a personal thing?

As for the rest;
-FPS & MOBAs usually get toxic players in general. One other non-valve moba comes to mind easily.
-Lootboxes were made by other companies before Valve. EA started pushing it, other companies began adopting it.
-You can report fake reviews/seeming copy/paste reviews. This however, wont change that some people actually enjoy Grounded 2, BF6 Beta, etc.
-Not a monopoly, just popular. Plenty of competition and they do nothing to try interfering with competition.
-They're mid games at best, people just have a load of nostalgia.

Originally posted by wesnef:

Online forum posters, driven by manufactured-controversy/outrage/conspiracy "influencers", are wildly overdramatic.

Same applies to users who have an ax to grind with a specific developer due to (usually) overblown reasons.

As for the question posed by the OP: No. Valve is a corporation aiming to generate profit. They're not good or evil. They're also not in the business of trying to make people all around the world better as human beings. That falls on the individual and their parents if they're a minor.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

- EOMM in Dota2, CS:GO (back when it existed), Deadlock (at least a year ago it was in) — this kinda MM just makes clueless players hate on each other and breeds the most toxic communities.

Toxicity is breed by the playerbase not the actual game they are playing.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

- One of the first to push lootboxes, straight up exploiting people’s mental vulnerabilities.

But not the first and we all have the power to say no.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

- Review shenanigans — just look at the reviews of all those “mostly positive” and up games, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on.

Still deeming Grounded 2 is review boosted while having zero proof it has being.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

On the flip side, Valve has made some great games (HFs, Portal, etc.). Even Dota and Deadlock (without EOMM) could’ve been great.

Great is a personal opinion, not a universal one.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

- Steam’s basically a monopoly, just like Windows. As much as I dislike Xbox/EGS and the rest, competition’s always healthy. Valve takes one of the highest cuts (30%) from devs. More money going to the store = less money for the folks actually making the game. This + the review stuff just stagnates the industry and pushes out cash grabs.

Being popular does not make you a monopoly.

30% cut? Valve does revenue share based on sales, which goes down to 20%.

Review stuff? Cash grabs? Yet another Grounded 2 reference. Purchasing is voluntary not mandatory.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

Who knows, maybe HF3 dropping tomorrow will change the whole impression.

Of your personal opinion?

Originally posted by datCookie:

4) "Basically a monopoly" is not the same as actually being one. They offer the largest library of games and more services for both developers and players alike than any other platform. They're not perfect, but unless another platform can do what they do and more, this doesn't make them evil.

More games don’t necessarily mean more choice. Discovery Q keeps pushing the same over-advertised stuff. Who knows, maybe there’s a great indie game out there - made by developers who spent all their money on actual development instead of "marketing"- but it just never shows up in recommendations.

What unique options does Steam actually offer players apart from the 2-hour refund window and the convenient game library? The first is often undermined by unskippable tutorials/scenes, and the second is more of a QoL feature than a unique selling point.

If buying games directly = more money for devs and better quality, that's good, no? Subjective, but i'd sacrifice a convenient list for that

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

More games don’t necessarily mean more choice. Discovery Q keeps pushing the same over-advertised stuff. Who knows, maybe there’s a great indie game out there - made by developers who spent all their money on actual development instead of marketing- but it just never shows up in recommendations.

Is based around what you play. I personally see different games every day. Some i add some to my library. Drova and Netherworld Covenant to name two.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

What unique options does Steam actually offer players apart from the 2-hour refund window and the convenient game library? The first is often undermined by unskippable tutorials/scenes, and the second is more of a QoL feature than a unique selling point.

Valve did not make those 3rd party games.

You can watch gameplay videos to determine if it something you will play and continue to play. If it isn't you do not purchase it, therefore the refund window has zero relevance.

The selling point is that it is centralised.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

If buying games directly = more money for devs and better quality, that's good, no? Subjective, but i'd sacrifice a convenient list for that

Subjective? It is more money if you purchase directly on their own platform or via their website as Valve do not get a cut. Did you forget your point about Valve's 30% cut?

I get games on their own PC client/store. No Valve cut.

I play Stars Wars the Old Republic. The subscription fee goes directly to EA.

I pre-ordered Dark Heresy from Owlcat. No Valve cut. I get a Steam copy on release.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

Originally posted by datCookie:

4) "Basically a monopoly" is not the same as actually being one. They offer the largest library of games and more services for both developers and players alike than any other platform. They're not perfect, but unless another platform can do what they do and more, this doesn't make them evil.

More games don’t necessarily mean more choice. Discovery Q keeps pushing the same over-advertised stuff. Who knows, maybe there’s a great indie game out there - made by developers who spent all their money on actual development instead of marketing- but it just never shows up in recommendations.

What unique options does Steam actually offer players apart from the 2-hour refund window and the convenient game library? The first is often undermined by unskippable tutorials/scenes, and the second is more of a QoL feature than a unique selling point.

If buying games directly = more money for devs and better quality, that's good, no? Subjective, but i'd sacrifice a convenient list for that

- Community features (screenshots, artwork, forums, profile customisation etc.)
- Remote Play Together
- Family sharing and Family view
- Built in mod support (steam workshop)
- Built in controller support
- Linux support
- Games with no DRM (though you have to look for them, as they are not very common)


You can of course purchase games from devs directly if possible, that's a freedom you have. Doesn''t make Steam any less usefull. And certainly not a monopoly, like you tried to initially claim.

Valve is a company, companies like money. Well, actually: companies need money ("revenue") if they want to stay in business.

Yet unlike some other companies Valve tries to stay true to its core design. Despite the fact that the forums could be seen as a financial overhead (I mean: I'm sure plenty of manhours go into its moderation and such) ... despite that, it's still here. In fact, there are even (controversial) cases where Valve somewhat stepped in and shut down abuse of some Valve groups. I don't think that an "evil" company which is only in it for the money would go through those lengths.

The main problem though, IMO of course, are fanboys. There's nothing wrong with being a Steam fan, I consider myself one as well, but you always need to keep in mind that at the end of the day Valve loves your money more than they love you as a person. That's not them being evil, that's them being a company and prioritizing what companies need.

Unfortunately plenty of people don't realize this small tidbit and suddenly end up disappointed when the company does what it's best at: prioritizing to make money.

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

Originally posted by datCookie:

4) "Basically a monopoly" is not the same as actually being one. They offer the largest library of games and more services for both developers and players alike than any other platform. They're not perfect, but unless another platform can do what they do and more, this doesn't make them evil.

More games don’t necessarily mean more choice. Discovery Q keeps pushing the same over-advertised stuff. Who knows, maybe there’s a great indie game out there - made by developers who spent all their money on actual development instead of "marketing"- but it just never shows up in recommendations.

What unique options does Steam actually offer players apart from the 2-hour refund window and the convenient game library? The first is often undermined by unskippable tutorials/scenes, and the second is more of a QoL feature than a unique selling point.

If buying games directly = more money for devs and better quality, that's good, no? Subjective, but i'd sacrifice a convenient list for that

More games does equal more choice, thats almost the exact definition of the phrase. Your discovery queue is a list of recommended titles based on what you play. But there's far more to the store than that, perhaps you should start searching through the categories and you'll be surprised by what you can find.

Steam offers a workshop for direct mod integration
Creation of guides for games, covering various topics
Forums for discussion of games
Artwork and screenshot sharing
Review and rating system
For me personally - a friendly user interface

I'm sure there's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Zarineth:

- Community features (screenshots, artwork, forums, profile customisation etc.)
- Remote Play Together
- Family sharing and Family view
- Built in mod support (steam workshop)
- Built in controller support
- Linux support
- Games with no DRM (though you have to look for them, as they are not very common)

Ok, valid point, most of them are unique, but not sure they will be useful to the vast majority of players.

Originally posted by Zarineth:

And certainly not a monopoly, like you tried to initially claim.

What about Steam prohibiting developers from offering their games for a lower price on any other platform or website?

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

Originally posted by Zarineth:

And certainly not a monopoly, like you tried to initially claim.

What about Steam prohibiting developers from offering their games for a lower price on any other platform or website?

That's for STEAM KEYS.

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

What about Steam prohibiting developers from offering their games for a lower price on any other platform or website?

That's for STEAM KEYS.

This article doesn't mention keys https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpwwyj6v24xo.amp

absolutely.

"Evil" is about deliberate inaction.

Combine that with personal gain you arrive at a conclusion that is nothing short of hideous. Sadly this strongly applies to the once magnificent platform.

When you consider how a given entity affects society and or innocent bystanders - and what that entity could do to prevent harm/the active exacerbation of issues -it really drives home the "evil" in their intent.

Beyond intent, "evil" can be measured by how much a given entity personally permits their problems or the problems adjacent them to infect surrounding bystanders. We all have problems; the world of humanity is a mass of them. I'm not sure what defines creatures as flawed as humans as "good" but making the active choice to prevent passing those problems on to others is choosing not to be evil. Valve and STEAM are a group whose individual actions of members within it greatly tint whether the entity as a whole is "evil". While there's strength in numbers this is its greatest weakness, and an excellent reason to stand for yourself and only you.

Being "evil" is the result that consumers and a few individuals within the company brought upon it, and its natural progression to a massive modern corporation. Changing or halting that evil process requires a massive change in the direction of global culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWYCS6k1IOA
Oh, here's this.

Life's too short.

Enjoy, and have a lovely weekend.

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Still deeming Grounded 2 is review boosted while having zero proof it has being.

Oh, so this is what this thread is about, isn't it?