All Discussions > Steam Forums > Suggestions / Ideas > Topic Details
Gamer Since 1993 22 Feb, 2019 @ 6:53pm
Achievements
Despite that you did, you can't put together achievements like game, dlc and multiplayer.
These achievements must be separated. For a perfect game, you must complete the game with the achievements that comes with the game without DLC or Multiplayer. These two you can add it for something special, like and extra badge, or a boost XP for his steam rank. Bottom line is, you can not force people to buy other products, in order to complete a game, wich is a simple number +1 on a profile.

Also, you might check the achievements complexity and functionality. Take Warface for instance(nothing works), Call of Duty Black ops 2 with his sadistic Giant Achievement thing. You can't let people do that. You put a product on market, make it right from all view points.

You can add by achievement complexity, some points like on Xbox, and create a gamer rate. What are you doing now is show us "I don't give a... about you. Bring your money"

Additional note
An achievement must be one of these type:
-story related (kill a boss)
-world wide map related (discover parts of map)
-world wide map items related (search like a lunatic some stuff here and there)
-game difficulty related
-character and/or weapon related (kill 50 %enemy name% with %gun name%)

An achievement can not be (if you are a professional developer)
-
hidden achievement
(take Dark Rider from Darksiders - ride 100 miles. And if that wasn't enough, do it in the same savegeme)
-
counter-productive achievements
(kill yourself 100 times or have yourself kill or knockdown from an enemy x times)
(avoid in close range 6 mines/grenades and survive)
-
DLC achievements
(find a way to separate these achievements from the main game achievements)
-
Multiplayer achievements
(IF the game is dead, online speaking, you can not completed. Nobody is around to help you complete it. These also must be removed or separate from the main game achievements)
-
previous game version achievements
(have a complete set of game versions. Take sniper elite 3 and maybe 4. They "force" you to buy the previous games versions in order to get an achievement)
-
broken achievements
(make sure your stuff is working)
-
hardware related achievements
(kill x enemies with analog controller. Should I go buy a controller for 1 achievement?)

Some users believe that I'm ♥♥♥♥♥ing a lot. The game with achievements it's more interesting than one without it. The truth is, if you do something, do it right and be responsible for it. If you do a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ job with a game, don't expect me to buy anything else from that game company. Not gonna happen!

Additional note

They are not pro's in this area. The purpose of achievements, among with other things, is to increase sales. This is the only reason. If it was anything else, your profile were mention a lot more stuff related. As a professional developer in this achievement area, you must increase your sales. You shouldn't make it hard, as if you were a masochist, but not easy either. You must focus, according with game quality and difficulty. For you... keep a balance with everything. It's like you must keep a speed gauge at a specific speed. You think you will convince me to share the game with my friends if you keep me in fog with some ridiculous achievements, hidden achievements? Obviously not. And the company is punished as well. "What? Codemasters? Nah man, they make weird achievements"

Stats: achievements, boosts sales up to 40% if you make it right.
Last edited by Gamer Since 1993; 27 Feb, 2019 @ 4:44pm
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Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
Originally posted by Sebastian:
Originally posted by B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t:
You'll have to take that up with the developers of games, they can add achievements how they like to their games.

Yeah, you can ask to like 1000 developers...

Or you can ask Valve to moderate this, like every other gaming platform owner out there (PlayStation, Xbox, etc.).

The point is, they don't really care how the devs set it up. Everything is completely up to them to decide whether or not they want to spend the time/money on making it that way.

:qr:
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Showing 1-15 of 38 comments
Si-Fi 22 Feb, 2019 @ 7:58pm 
You aren't blaming Valve but the game developers and publishers of said games.

Unfortunately, these said games are crafted and steered by the developers and publishers which brings you to the case where us as the customer are out of jurisdiction in deciding how a game should and shouldn't be completed.

And i know how stubborn it can be when you need DLC to complete the whole game and achievements on top.

I'd leave the gamer rate out of contrast though as Steam already has enough to offer at this point.
#1
B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t 22 Feb, 2019 @ 8:35pm 
You'll have to take that up with the developers of games, they can add achievements how they like to their games.
#2
Sebastian 25 Feb, 2019 @ 9:30am 
Originally posted by B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t:
You'll have to take that up with the developers of games, they can add achievements how they like to their games.

Yeah, you can ask to like 1000 developers...

Or you can ask Valve to moderate this, like every other gaming platform owner out there (PlayStation, Xbox, etc.).
#3
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
cSg|mc-Hotsauce 25 Feb, 2019 @ 9:33am 
Originally posted by Sebastian:
Originally posted by B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t:
You'll have to take that up with the developers of games, they can add achievements how they like to their games.

Yeah, you can ask to like 1000 developers...

Or you can ask Valve to moderate this, like every other gaming platform owner out there (PlayStation, Xbox, etc.).

The point is, they don't really care how the devs set it up. Everything is completely up to them to decide whether or not they want to spend the time/money on making it that way.

:qr:
#4
Count_Dandyman 25 Feb, 2019 @ 9:34am 
Originally posted by Sebastian:
Originally posted by B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t:
You'll have to take that up with the developers of games, they can add achievements how they like to their games.

Yeah, you can ask to like 1000 developers...

Or you can ask Valve to moderate this, like every other gaming platform owner out there (PlayStation, Xbox, etc.).
Before claiming every other platform enforces this you should do basic fact checking because the reality is that Playstation is the only one that does it. Besides nobody owes you a 100% on a game if you aren't actually doing 100% of the game.
#5
cinedine 25 Feb, 2019 @ 9:35am 
DLC and Multiplayer are part of the game once they are out. If you want to achieve 100 % in a game, you have to achieve 100 % in a game.
Hard to call something "perfect" if you leave out half of it.

And achievement that actually take effort? How am I supposed to ever do them?
#6
Sleepy Yoshi 25 Feb, 2019 @ 11:09am 
Racketeering is a crime with a very specific legal definition. It's in no way applicable to this discussion. There's no "more or less" to it. I do believe you are right though, that Valve largely does not care about the achievement system beyond it's current iteration. But at the same time changes they make would be extremely difficult to apply to existing games considering the sheer scope of titles on the platform.

This is especially true with splitting base game, dlc and multiplayer achievements. They could certainly recommend developers do it moving forward, but then you have this weird achievement dichotomy between new games and existing one's.
Last edited by Sleepy Yoshi; 25 Feb, 2019 @ 11:10am
#7
Sebastian 25 Feb, 2019 @ 3:03pm 
Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:
Racketeering is a crime with a very specific legal definition. It's in no way applicable to this discussion. There's no "more or less" to it. I do believe you are right though, that Valve largely does not care about the achievement system beyond it's current iteration. But at the same time changes they make would be extremely difficult to apply to existing games considering the sheer scope of titles on the platform.

This is especially true with splitting base game, dlc and multiplayer achievements. They could certainly recommend developers do it moving forward, but then you have this weird achievement dichotomy between new games and existing one's.

Yeah, but IF it is something important later is better than never. But well, obviously isn't for Valve.
#8
Sebastian 25 Feb, 2019 @ 3:15pm 
Originally posted by cinedine:
DLC and Multiplayer are part of the game once they are out. If you want to achieve 100 % in a game, you have to achieve 100 % in a game.
Hard to call something "perfect" if you leave out half of it.

And achievement that actually take effort? How am I supposed to ever do them?

And that's your opinion. But most important, if you don't care why came here to trash ideas which in the case of be implemented don't affect you (negatively at least) at all?

I mean, ok, it's your opinion but it is not constructive, you trashed it just because you don't like it? Or do you have a better argument but are too lazy to write it?
Last edited by Sebastian; 25 Feb, 2019 @ 3:15pm
#9
cinedine 25 Feb, 2019 @ 3:40pm 
Originally posted by Sebastian:
Originally posted by cinedine:
DLC and Multiplayer are part of the game once they are out. If you want to achieve 100 % in a game, you have to achieve 100 % in a game.
Hard to call something "perfect" if you leave out half of it.

And achievement that actually take effort? How am I supposed to ever do them?

And that's your opinion. But most important, if you don't care why came here to trash ideas which in the case of be implemented don't affect you (negatively at least) at all?

I mean, ok, it's your opinion but it is not constructive, you trashed it just because you don't like it? Or do you have a better argument but are too lazy to write it?

Because I am quite sick of so-called achievement hunters who ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan over not being able to get 100 % in a game. It's worse than the "no plat, no buy" mindset on PlayStation.

Realistically no one but you cares about your achievements, especially on PC where it takes all of five seconds to unlock all achievements for all your games.
Just accept that you won't get 100 % in various games for various reasons.

If you want a perfect account, do some homework before and play the games you doubt or know you'll not perfect on another account ... which in the end is just fooling yourself.

I don't cry over missing multiplayer achievements, but I enjoy that little incentive to at least try it out and maybe stick with it for a while. It also helps keeping the multiplayer at least alive enough to get some matches later down the line.

And stuff like Black Ops 2 Giant Accomplishment? Yeah, it's a challenge. And it's bloody worthy of an achievement and having proof you did it and walked the extra mile.
There are far more ridiculous achievements out there. The Easteregg ones in Zombie mode that require a full group to work towards them for example. And guess what - we have the same kind of ridiculous achievements in TF2, so don't expect any sympathy from Valve on this front.
#10
Seretti 25 Feb, 2019 @ 3:45pm 
Originally posted by cinedine:
-snip-

Thank you. :)
#11
Gamer Since 1993 26 Feb, 2019 @ 1:27am 
Originally posted by cinedine:
DLC and Multiplayer are part of the game once they are out. If you want to achieve 100 % in a game, you have to achieve 100 % in a game.
Hard to call something "perfect" if you leave out half of it.

And achievement that actually take effort? How am I supposed to ever do them?
100% of the game means story related.
In Sniper Elite 3 you have 2 different stories with 4 dlc's. Unrelated.
Lets suppose I bought the game on releasing date. I've finished it in 3-4 days completely. At that time no DLC appear for that game. You can not be a market slave, in order to achieve steam perfection. They can make another section for multiplayer and DLC's, if we talk about completing the achievements.
And it is not about the achievement hunting, it is about the implication of Steam in this matter. They are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in their house, not mine. I just refuse a game ... from various reason.
And one important thing: don't be ignorant. Hitler got the power because of it. You see it you snipe it.
Last edited by Gamer Since 1993; 26 Feb, 2019 @ 1:34am
#12
Count_Dandyman 26 Feb, 2019 @ 1:43am 
Originally posted by Gameplay Chronicle:
Originally posted by cinedine:
DLC and Multiplayer are part of the game once they are out. If you want to achieve 100 % in a game, you have to achieve 100 % in a game.
Hard to call something "perfect" if you leave out half of it.

And achievement that actually take effort? How am I supposed to ever do them?
100% of the game means story related.
In Sniper Elite 3 you have 2 different stories with 4 dlc's. Unrelated.
Lets suppose I bought the game on releasing date. I've finished it in 3-4 days completely. At that time no DLC appear for that game. You can not be a market slave, in order to achieve steam perfection. They can make another section for multiplayer and DLC's, if we talk about completing the achievements.
And it is not about the achievement hunting, it is about the implication of Steam in this matter. They are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in their house, not mine. I just refuse a game ... from various reason.
And one important thing: don't be ignorant. Hitler got the power because of it. You see it you snipe it.
No 100% of the game means 100% of the game there are very few games where the story is more than just the starting point the game is built around. Nobody is being ignorant for disagreeing with your idea that you are owed some magic tick on your account that doesn't really matter.
#13
Crazy Tiger 26 Feb, 2019 @ 2:16am 
Originally posted by Sebastian:
Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:
Racketeering is a crime with a very specific legal definition. It's in no way applicable to this discussion. There's no "more or less" to it. I do believe you are right though, that Valve largely does not care about the achievement system beyond it's current iteration. But at the same time changes they make would be extremely difficult to apply to existing games considering the sheer scope of titles on the platform.

This is especially true with splitting base game, dlc and multiplayer achievements. They could certainly recommend developers do it moving forward, but then you have this weird achievement dichotomy between new games and existing one's.

Yeah, but IF it is something important later is better than never. But well, obviously isn't for Valve.

Which begs the question, is it actually important?

Originally posted by Gameplay Chronicle:
Originally posted by cinedine:
DLC and Multiplayer are part of the game once they are out. If you want to achieve 100 % in a game, you have to achieve 100 % in a game.
Hard to call something "perfect" if you leave out half of it.

And achievement that actually take effort? How am I supposed to ever do them?
100% of the game means story related.
In Sniper Elite 3 you have 2 different stories with 4 dlc's. Unrelated.
Lets suppose I bought the game on releasing date. I've finished it in 3-4 days completely. At that time no DLC appear for that game. You can not be a market slave, in order to achieve steam perfection. They can make another section for multiplayer and DLC's, if we talk about completing the achievements.
And it is not about the achievement hunting, it is about the implication of Steam in this matter. They are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in their house, not mine. I just refuse a game ... from various reason.
And one important thing: don't be ignorant. Hitler got the power because of it. You see it you snipe it.

Your OP is about achievements, so it's 100% of achievements. That goes beyond the story in games.
There is no reason to make another section for multiplayer, if that's part of the base game. For DLC I could imagine as Playstation does that, but I honestly never saw the point of it on the PS.

What you really want is a shortcut so you can add a +1 on perfect games. Did you really expect people to go "yeah, good idea" on this one?
#14
AmsterdamHeavy 26 Feb, 2019 @ 3:31am 
Originally posted by Sebastian:
Originally posted by B l u e b e r r y P o p t a r t:
You'll have to take that up with the developers of games, they can add achievements how they like to their games.

Yeah, you can ask to like 1000 developers...

Or you can ask Valve to moderate this, like every other gaming platform owner out there (PlayStation, Xbox, etc.).


So tired of this mindset generally.

STOP.

STOP thinking about a problem's solution: "How can I force someone to do what I want"

This assumes that the devs never considered the "problem".
This assumes that Valve never considered "the problem".


Yes, the people that make and distribute games never considered this. Or maybe they did and consider it an irrelevancy...

An irrelevancy that the OP is comparing to RACKETEERING ffs.

Over game achievements.

Read those last 2 lines again for some perspective.

Game achievements. Racketeering.

#15
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Date Posted: 22 Feb, 2019 @ 6:53pm
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