No. A bunch of arbitrary items to try and create a score to rate someone's value is not a good idea. Not to mention it would encourage and give credibility for users to discriminate the same way. I don't think Valve is going to give such endorsement for such shoddy behavior. It's lazy and stupid.

Fact is bots are't new, and neither are people misbehaving. You're not going to control the human condition with a bunch of feelgood slop. And fact is harming every new user, or casual user to get at people you don't like is not a good trade off.

After all according to your criteria you should trust my judgement since my "score" is much higher than yours. The "value" of my posts are much higher than yours.

Originally posted by nullable:

No. A bunch of arbitrary items to try and create a score to rate someone's value is not a good idea. Not to mention it would encourage and give credibility for users to discriminate the same way. I don't think Valve is going to give such endorsement for such shoddy behavior. It's lazy and stupid.

Fact is bots are't new, and neither are people misbehaving. You're not going to control the human condition with a bunch of feelgood slop. And fact is harming every new user, or casual user to get at people you don't like is not a good trade off.

After all according to your criteria you should trust my judgement since my "score" is much higher than yours. The "value" of my posts are much higher than yours. :KentWinning:

Strawmanning my value-assignments and even my very argument is not the sign of a good-faith post. I suggest you edit this so that you can uphold the vague pretense of a remotely credible commenter.

The user should not see this 'value' at all, it's -supposed- to be a hidden one, thats the entire point, so that it doesnt get 'gamified', and should be adjusted as needed in the future if it becomes evident that people have figured it out and are exploiting the algorithm. Like i said, not all reviews are created equal, any of the reviews i've written for the games i've played are automatically of far higher value than someone who owns 1-2 f2p games on their account, and spends 99% of their time bot-farming skins/hats in tf2, who refunded the game right after churning out a low-effort positive review.

Without this system, reviews become largely obsolete entirely, as what was already a serious problem is now rendering all reviews useless and untrustworthy. This is merely an algorithm that will push up quality reviews and will add creditibility to the overall user-satisfaction % rating. The recent Blue Archive scandal is testament to how needed my suggested system is.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

There are now AI botnets that are artificially pumping up game reviews

Source?

Right now the aggregates are only accurate BECAUSE everyone's review has the same weight. Messing with that would make the aggregates LESS accurate, not more.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

Originally posted by nullable:

No. A bunch of arbitrary items to try and create a score to rate someone's value is not a good idea. Not to mention it would encourage and give credibility for users to discriminate the same way. I don't think Valve is going to give such endorsement for such shoddy behavior. It's lazy and stupid.

Fact is bots are't new, and neither are people misbehaving. You're not going to control the human condition with a bunch of feelgood slop. And fact is harming every new user, or casual user to get at people you don't like is not a good trade off.

After all according to your criteria you should trust my judgement since my "score" is much higher than yours. The "value" of my posts are much higher than yours.

Strawmanning my value-assignments and even my very argument is not the sign of a good-faith post. I suggest you edit this so that you can uphold the vague pretense of a remotely credible commenter.

Telling you things you don't want to hear, which exposes the issues with your idea is not "straw manning".

Stupid suggestion denied. Also thanks for the points. I appreciate them.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

The user should not see this 'value' at all, it's -supposed- to be a hidden one, thats the entire point, so that it doesnt get 'gamified', and should be adjusted as needed in the future if it becomes evident that people have figured it out and are exploiting the algorithm. Like i said, not all reviews are created equal, any of the reviews i've written for the games i've played are automatically of far higher value than someone who owns 1-2 f2p games on their account, and spends 99% of their time bot-farming skins/hats in tf2, who refunded the game right after churning out a low-effort positive review.

Not seeing the value won't keep the process a secret. If the process of scoring users based on crap is good enough for Valve, every jagoff will believe it's an appropriate thing to do., even if they have to do their own "scoring".

Also you're wrong about the value of your reviews. The reader determines the value of a review, not you, and not some algorithm you've designed to benefit yourself. You seem to think readers are incapable of making those judgments, so you want to do it for them. No thank you.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

Without this system, reviews become largely obsolete entirely, as what was already a serious problem is now rendering all reviews useless and untrustworthy. This is merely an algorithm that will push up quality reviews and will add creditibility to the overall user-satisfaction % rating. The recent Blue Archive scandal is testament to how needed my suggested system is.

You think reviews are obsolete without some kind of algorithm to determine value? LOL, well that is an opinion to be sure.

Well, I'll just take comfort in knowing Valve will never adopt such a self-serving harebrained idea. And every day it's not implemented will be a reminder of that.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Source?

Right now the aggregates are only accurate BECAUSE everyone's review has the same weight. Messing with that would make the aggregates LESS accurate, not more.

https://leveluptalk.com/news/billion-dollar-company-rigged-steam-reviews/

Nexon was not punished for this violation either. Not to mention, any bribed reviews would have been mostly suppressed if my suggested system was in place, as most gacha players on steam don't buy real games.

Just like not everyone should be allowed to vote, nor should everyones review be given equal weight, because they're fundamentally not equal in value.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Source?

Right now the aggregates are only accurate BECAUSE everyone's review has the same weight. Messing with that would make the aggregates LESS accurate, not more.

https://leveluptalk.com/news/billion-dollar-company-rigged-steam-reviews/

Nexon was not punished for this violation either. Not to mention, any bribed reviews would have been mostly suppressed if my suggested system was in place, as most gacha players on steam don't buy real games.

Just like not everyone should be allowed to vote, nor should everyones review be given equal weight, because they're fundamentally not equal in value.

Sounds great... until the algorithm works against you for some reason, then it's going to be a problem because naturally it should only impact other people, not "valuable" users like yourself.

Originally posted by nullable:

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

Strawmanning my value-assignments and even my very argument is not the sign of a good-faith post. I suggest you edit this so that you can uphold the vague pretense of a remotely credible commenter.

Telling you things you don't want to hear, which exposes the issues with your idea is not "straw manning".

Stupid suggestion denied. Also thanks for the points. I appreciate them.

You think reviews are obsolete without some kind of algorithm to determine value? LOL, well that is an opinion to be sure.

Well, I'll just take comfort in knowing Valve will never adopt such a self-serving harebrained idea. And every day it's not implemented will be a reminder of that. :KentHappy:

Good luck.

You havent made a single credible point yet, except your virtue-based, faux-outrage about me pointing out just how useless and consumer-hostile, gamed and fraudulent reviews are and how they damage the credibility of the entire user-review system itself.

I, being a paying long term user of steam, by default of the nature of my account, my reviews are reasonably credible, because an account like mine cannot submit 'bot' reviews, its very old, i have no vac bans, a LONG history of purchases and steam-internal social media interactions, i am in every sense of the word, a 'legitimate' account, as are you.

X runs on a similar principle, which goes miles towards suppressing their legion of AI-botposting that has plagued that platform for a decade. Similar systems to my suggestion has already been demonstrated as effective on other social media platforms. Unlike yourself, who posts here to feed your own ego, i am merely posting this thread, and defending it against trolls, because i have been concerned about one of steams most user-beneficial systems ever, and its slow degradation under astroturfing and shills.

When EGS introduces an identical system to steam ill be less concerned, until then this is a very important system that helps users determine where best to spend their money and time, and its credibilty, needs to be protected.

Originally posted by nullable:

Sounds great... until the algorithm works against you for some reason, then it's going to be a problem because naturally it should only impact other people, not "valuable" users like yourself.

If such an event were to occur, assuming i'd even be able to notice, is an absurd hypothetical that lacks rational thought, there's no reason to devalue my posts, unless i were being constantly banned from the forums for trolling, in which case, sure, add a negative value to that, i see no problem with it.

Accounts with little personal investment from the user, which is literally every-bot account on the Steam platform, and unemployed kid playing dota2/cs2/tf2/fortnite etc, should have little weight to their community submissions, whether the account is owned by a legitimate user or not is irrelevant, if they're a real person, in time if they start paying for games, interacting with other users via friends lists+forums, then their 'value' as a user rises, and so does their value as a reviewer.

I feel like having the percentage of positive reviews not match with the actual number of counted positive reviews divided by the actual number of counted total reviews would harm the reputation of Steam's review system, not help it.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

https://leveluptalk.com/news/billion-dollar-company-rigged-steam-reviews/

This has absolutely nothing to do with AI botnets, and none of your proposed solutions would do anything to solve this issue.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

https://leveluptalk.com/news/billion-dollar-company-rigged-steam-reviews/

This has absolutely nothing to do with AI botnets, and none of your proposed solutions would do anything to solve this issue.

once again, if you understand gaming demographics, gacha gamers tend not to have normal game purchases on their accounts, so any gamification would have been largely suppressed by default, without any active work on Steams behalf.

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

I feel like having the percentage of positive reviews not match with the actual number of counted positive reviews divided by the actual number of counted total reviews would harm the reputation of Steam's review system, not help it.

So long as the vast majority of -legitimate- users are being reflected in the positive-negative ratio of user reviews, i am happy. Steam having to come in and manually adjust that % because of "review bombing" goes against this premise and actively harms the review system. I'm open to adjusting the strength of this, its not like i have any ability to implement this change, its up to Steam to pick and choose how to adjust this system, not me.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

once again, if you understand gaming demographics, gacha gamers tend not to have normal game purchases on their accounts, so any gamification would have been largely suppressed by default, without any active work on Steams behalf.

The gamification was ALREADY suppressed in the very link you provided. Nexon cancelled their planned event in order to adhere to existing Steam guidelines. The system is working as intended, and you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist by creating a class system among Steam users, which would only CREATE problems.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

There are now AI botnets that are artificially pumping up game reviews

Source?

Right now the aggregates are only accurate BECAUSE everyone's review has the same weight. Messing with that would make the aggregates LESS accurate, not more.

Thats the reality right there.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

1. Number of PAID games on your account that weren't redeemed via codes to prevent scamming (demonstrates how invested a user is in his account, similar theory to X and its paid verification system)

Spoiler: Reviews from redeemed game codes are not accounted in the game's rating.

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

1. Number of PAID games on your account that weren't redeemed via codes to prevent scamming (demonstrates how invested a user is in his account, similar theory to X and its paid verification system)

Spoiler: Reviews from redeemed game codes are not accounted in the game's rating.

Spoiler, thats not what i said, nor was that what i was suggesting. Frankly i think that alongside my proposed system, that reviews from redeemed game codes SHOULD count as valid reviews, assuming said accounts are authentic. Feel free to actually read what i write before posting.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

once again, if you understand gaming demographics, gacha gamers tend not to have normal game purchases on their accounts, so any gamification would have been largely suppressed by default, without any active work on Steams behalf.

The gamification was ALREADY suppressed in the very link you provided. Nexon cancelled their planned event in order to adhere to existing Steam guidelines. The system is working as intended, and you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist by creating a class system among Steam users, which would only CREATE problems.

The Nexon scandal is merely the latest in a long series of issues that have declined the value, credibility and purpose of the customer review system, that Nexon got snitched on and removed it of their own volition, before Steam intervened or did anything at all, means little. Denigrate my proposal all you like, potential customers already have to jump through hoops to find potentially valid reviews to guess at, the system is already failing badly when you have to click on multiple filter tabs to find what you're looking for.

These are already core issues that are unaddressed by Steam, and they need to fix them. Because nobody else cares enough about the customer experience to do it, not you guys, not Epic Game Store, not Blizzard, not Ubisoft and their installers, not Riot games, nobody.

Originally posted by ArmstrongDicksmasher:

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Spoiler: Reviews from redeemed game codes are not accounted in the game's rating.

Spoiler, thats not what i said, nor was that what i was suggesting. Frankly i think that alongside my proposed system, that reviews from redeemed game codes SHOULD count as valid reviews, assuming said accounts are authentic. Feel free to actually read what i write before posting.

Accounts that redeemed a game key don't count because devs abused it already.