So you want "big companies" to release unfinished games not as early access and mislead potential buyers?

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

"Early Access" was developed as a way to help small and indie studios fund their games while still in the process of developing them.

Incorrect. Valve even states that Early Access should not be used for funding development of a game.

As the big blue box states:
"get involved with this game as it develops."

And here is the informational page about Early Access:
https://steamhost.cn/earlyaccessfaq/

So no. It is not exclusively for indie titles nor for funding development of the project.

Once again, mismanaged expectations and an inability to understand plainly worded statements has brought us another thread of incorrect assumptions.

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

Large companies, like GGG, abusing Early Access ... "Early Access" was developed as a way to help small and indie studios fund their games while still in the process of developing them.
...

Wrong.

What Early Access Is Not
Early Access is not a way to crowdfund development of your product.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

If you are afraid of getting "scammed" you already have the best tool available.
Do not buy EarlyAccess, wait for the game to go gold/finished.

The storepage has warnings on every EarlyAccess title.

Nothing to change, it's fine as it is.

I mean funding is a PART of it, but its not the sole reason for EA. Its also a way to gather customer input while the game is being developed and let people be a part of the process.

Revenue threshold? Nah, if an eag gets popular and makes money that's a good thing which can keep development stable due to receiving funding from players. Basically helps the chances of finishing and even adding more content.

Being supposedly funded by tencent doesn't mean there's an unlimited funds cheat code for development.

Originally posted by BJWyler:

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

"Early Access" was developed as a way to help small and indie studios fund their games while still in the process of developing them.

Once again, mismanaged expectations and an inability to understand plainly worded statements has brought us another thread of incorrect assumptions.

I think you should think about that statement and maybe rephrase it.

The link that you provide is information directed at players, at potential purchasers of Early Access title. It provides tips and information on how to go about getting into an Early Access game and what to look out for, what there is to beware.

Let's try another link which is NOT directed at consumers.

EARLY ACCESS

[en.wikipedia.org]

Here's the opening line of that link.

Early access, also known as alpha access, alpha founding, paid alpha, or game preview, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue further development on the game.

EARLY ACCESS is understood as a funding model. The purpose of Early Access if to provide funding for small and indie studios to develop their titles.

Companies like Grinding Gear Games do NOT need funding support from anyone. GGG is abusing the Early Access funding model to gouge money from players.

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

Originally posted by BJWyler:

Once again, mismanaged expectations and an inability to understand plainly worded statements has brought us another thread of incorrect assumptions.

I think you should think about that statement and maybe rephrase it.

The link that you provide is information directed at players, at potential purchasers of Early Access title. It provides tips and information on how to go about getting into an Early Access game and what to look out for, what there is to beware.

Let's try another link which is NOT directed at consumers.

EARLY ACCESS

[en.wikipedia.org]

Here's the opening line of that link.

Early access, also known as alpha access, alpha founding, paid alpha, or game preview, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue further development on the game.

EARLY ACCESS is understood as a funding model. The purpose of Early Access if to provide funding for small and indie studios to develop their titles.

Companies like Grinding Gear Games do NOT need funding support from anyone. GGG is abusing the Early Access funding model to gouge money from players.

No its accurate, the developer is able to use the funds to continue development but its not a requirement of EA. They CAN use it as a funding source if they wish, but its not required that they use it as a funding source.

Some use it just as a means of engagement with users while the game is developing. Also just because GGG CAN fund a game without it is no reason they can't use it. They are free to use it, and you are free to not buy the game if you disagree with it.

It's not abuse

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

Originally posted by BJWyler:

Once again, mismanaged expectations and an inability to understand plainly worded statements has brought us another thread of incorrect assumptions.

I think you should think about that statement and maybe rephrase it.

The link that you provide is information directed at players, at potential purchasers of Early Access title. It provides tips and information on how to go about getting into an Early Access game and what to look out for, what there is to beware.

Let's try another link which is NOT directed at consumers.

EARLY ACCESS

[en.wikipedia.org]

Here's the opening line of that link.

Early access, also known as alpha access, alpha founding, paid alpha, or game preview, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue further development on the game.

EARLY ACCESS is understood as a funding model. The purpose of Early Access if to provide funding for small and indie studios to develop their titles.

Companies like Grinding Gear Games do NOT need funding support from anyone. GGG is abusing the Early Access funding model to gouge money from players.

Try quoting Valve as that is what Early Access Games on Steam are for. A general Wikipedia does not change what the developer/publisher agreed to on Steam.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

What Early Access Is Not

Early Access is not a way to crowdfund development of your product.

You should not use Early Access solely to fund development. If you are counting on selling a specific number of units to complete your game, then you need to think carefully about what it would mean for you or your team if you don't sell that many units. Are you willing to continue developing the game without any sales? Are you willing to seek other forms of investment?

In addition to what has already been said as well:

Originally posted by The End:

Early Access is not a way to crowdfund development of your product.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

Let's try another link which is NOT directed at consumers.

EARLY ACCESS

[en.wikipedia.org]

Try quoting Valve as that is what Early Access Games on Steam are for. A general Wikipedia does not change what the developer/publisher agreed to on Steam.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

What Early Access Is Not

Early Access is not a way to crowdfund development of your product.

You should not use Early Access solely to fund development. If you are counting on selling a specific number of units to complete your game, then you need to think carefully about what it would mean for you or your team if you don't sell that many units. Are you willing to continue developing the game without any sales? Are you willing to seek other forms of investment?

So, we pass from a link directed at Consumers to a link directed at Developers. And, you guys are so eager to defend companies like GGG, that you are completely ignoring the context of the link that you provide.

That page is informing Developers of what they need to have in order to enter "Early Access"... i.e. NOT a Tech Demo, they need a playable game. Therefore, distinguishing "Early Access" from "Crowdfunding" is necessary because for "Crowdfunding" you don't need anything.

For "Crowdfunding" all you need to do, is have access to a group of people with money in their pockets and say: Hey guys, I have a project but I need some funding, can you help a brother out?

For "EARLY ACCESS" Valve wants you to have more than a proposal, more than a Tech Demo, they want you to have something playable, something that will have already received some investment.

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

For "EARLY ACCESS" Valve wants you to have more than a proposal, more than a Tech Demo, they want you to have something playable, something that will have already received some investment.

Huh sounds like Path of Exile 2 which is playable and which i'm playing now. They have been making adjustments to the game based on the feedback of the players, which is also one of the benefits of EA.

EA is more then just a means of funding, its a way to engage the community while developing the game. I see nothing wrong with that and neither does Valve hence why they allow companies like them to do so.

If YOU don't like it then don't buy it, but trying to dictate to others they can't do it makes no sense.

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Try quoting Valve as that is what Early Access Games on Steam are for. A general Wikipedia does not change what the developer/publisher agreed to on Steam.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

So, we pass from a link directed at Consumers to a link directed at Developers. And, you guys are so eager to defend companies like GGG, that you are completely ignoring the context of the link that you provide.

That page is informing Developers of what they need to have in order to enter "Early Access"... i.e. NOT a Tech Demo, they need a playable game. Therefore, distinguishing "Early Access" from "Crowdfunding" is necessary because for "Crowdfunding" you don't need anything.

For "Crowdfunding" all you need to do, is have access to a group of people with money in their pockets and say: Hey guys, I have a project but I need some funding, can you help a brother out?

For "EARLY ACCESS" Valve wants you to have more than a proposal, more than a Tech Demo, they want you to have something playable, something that will have already received some investment.

Steam is not Kickstarter.

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

So, we pass from a link directed at Consumers to a link directed at Developers. And, you guys are so eager to defend companies like GGG, that you are completely ignoring the context of the link that you provide.

That page is informing Developers of what they need to have in order to enter "Early Access"... i.e. NOT a Tech Demo, they need a playable game. Therefore, distinguishing "Early Access" from "Crowdfunding" is necessary because for "Crowdfunding" you don't need anything.

For "Crowdfunding" all you need to do, is have access to a group of people with money in their pockets and say: Hey guys, I have a project but I need some funding, can you help a brother out?

For "EARLY ACCESS" Valve wants you to have more than a proposal, more than a Tech Demo, they want you to have something playable, something that will have already received some investment.

It shows Valve's stance on the issue, far better then a Wikipedia page for the general term "Early Access." Minecraft was in that kind of "Early Access" long before Valve added their versions of Early Access to Steam.

You are free to ignore the evidence provided, but at least those reading are now better informed on the matter.

Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Steam is not Kickstarter.

:nkCool:

Exactly. And Valve has rules in place to ensure that Steam does not become Kickstarter. Their forward facing rules are a reflection of their developer agreements.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Steam is not Kickstarter.

:nkCool:

Exactly. And Valve has rules in place to ensure that Steam does not become Kickstarter. Their forward facing rules are a reflection of their developer agreements.

So, you agree that "Steam is NOT Kickstarter" but are going to ignore the same distinction between "Early Access" and "Crowdfunding" ??? i.e. that the link you provided has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

Originally posted by ExplorerNMS:

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Exactly. And Valve has rules in place to ensure that Steam does not become Kickstarter. Their forward facing rules are a reflection of their developer agreements.

So, you agree that "Steam is NOT Kickstarter" but are going to ignore the same distinction between "Early Access" and "Crowdfunding" ??? i.e. that the link you provided has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

Crowfunding is the difference between what Kickstarter is and what Steam's Early Access isn't.

Let me try to be clear.

I am NOT conflating Early Access and Crowdfunding or Kickstarting.

Early Access is a funding model. It is NOT Crowdfunding or Kickstarter. As I already said, the requirements are clearly different.