my trust to valve/steam is irepairibly damaged, thousands, maybe millions trust has also been damaged.
valve needs to grow a backbone against corps like mastercard, visa and the like, i CANNOT trust steam if they are going to bow down to groups like mastercard and visa, allowing VAGUE POLICES THAT CAN BE WEAPONISED! screw that, i would rather give sony-playstation my data than use a platform that bows down to weaponised rules that visa and master card have no legal right to enforce, (you know, cos telling people what they can and will do is not freedom, its dictatorship) a rule that as japan has proved, fits into an illegality on a global concern, especially eu with it being monoplistic, anti consumer and denying of basic rights.

let me put it like this, i am not the only one of this view, but if this keeps up, i am walking away and demanding access to my games that I PAID FOR UNDER THE CONSENSUS OF LEGALLY OWNING MY COPIES and having access to them off of steam

my trust and thrust of many hundreds of thousands maybe even millions has been damaged, i do not think i want to come back to steam if things like bowing down to ILLEGAL rules being pushed onto steam is going to happen with valve letting it happen.

my game are all EXPLICITLY purchased under the understanding i own what i pay for, it was not presented face to face and i never physically signed my name on dotted lines of a paper contract.. no physical contract signed by my hand, no agreement.

i don't want to put trust in steam anymore, i want my games off of steam if this is going to keep happening.

i mean lets be honest here, yes the games removed by visa or mastercard or whoever i could care less about. but at the end of the day, censorship is censorship and censorship is denial of freedom of expression and denial of freedom of speech.

FICTION IS NOT REALITY.

i pay to own what i pay for and i pay to own WHAT I WANT. not what im told i can have and not a meagre licence to what i pay for. but if steam is going to allow a weaponisable rule that is a blatant indication of a f*cking monopoly forcing censorship that denies the right to freedom of speech and expression, the right to tell a story, to depict fantasy



its like going and destroying a painting by a certain austrian artist turned lunatic (i genuinely do not remember how to spell his name) because of what he did ignoring the art piece itself

steam valve, whichever, whomever reads this. my trust is damaged beyond repair. i am only going to stick around because i have spent money on things i like here, and if it was an option, i would politely request my owned games off of steam all together.. but its not.. so if this problem gets worse.. i will legally demand access to what i own off of steam.. i have been loyal for a long time, even through concerns, worries of being banned cos of overly verbose rules not making things clear if being kicked from lobbies by players for no reason or my wifi disconnecting, even through worries of what i own being removed from my library even to concerns of games i owned like borderlands being turned to malware/spyware with terms of service that violate basic rights i stuck around and now, now im not sure its worth it.


the last month, even with the 2 wins on saving games both eu and uk.. have not been a good month, not with risks of losing what i own, not with rules being forced where they do not belong, not with the uk's attempt at censoring all content viewed in the uk online. simply put, im not in a good mood anymore, and if this gets worse, if this censorship and that rule persist.. it WILL be the straw that breaks the horses back.



if this breaks rules, so be it, i was told to bring this concern here, so i did. i don't really care anymore, i've had enough. if this breaks any rule, if this is bannable i really don't care, what i care about, is protecting and enforcing my rights, censorship is a denial of rights, a double standard that does not belong


ffs we live in a world where breastfeeding is more obscene than murder.. thats not right.

if murder, war, propaganda is acceptable media, then so is fictional fantasy depictions of dark or taboo topics.
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Originally posted by _BLOOD_MOON_WOLF_:
let me put it like this, i am not the only one of this view, but if this keeps up, i am walking away and demanding access to my games that I PAID FOR UNDER THE CONSENSUS OF LEGALLY OWNING MY COPIES and having access to them off of steam
An incorrect consensus does not override objective fact.
You have only ever owned a license. This has been the norm since the mid-80's

Originally posted by _BLOOD_MOON_WOLF_:
my game are all EXPLICITLY purchased under the understanding i own what i pay for, it was not presented face to face and i never physically signed my name on dotted lines of a paper contract.. no physical contract signed by my hand, no agreement.
Your misunderstanding is your own issue m8. Kinda says you never read. And no one got out of a traffic ticket by saying they didn't read the clearly posted 'No Parking' Sign.

Originally posted by _BLOOD_MOON_WOLF_:
i don't want to put trust in steam anymore, i want my games off of steam if this is going to keep happening.
Then you're gonna have to give up gaming m8 because no mattter where you go.. it's only a license you're getting.

Originally posted by _BLOOD_MOON_WOLF_:
i mean lets be honest here, yes the games removed by visa or mastercard or whoever i could care less about. but at the end of the day, censorship is censorship and censorship is denial of freedom of expression and denial of freedom of speech.
People who actually purchased the game still have access to the games.
Reuben 25 Jul @ 2:24am 
Valve was never your friend, they've always been worse than EA or Ubisoft could ever hope to be, they just give you more appetisers to hide it.

The cult around Gaben was funny in the 00s and 10s and it's funny now.
Last edited by Reuben; 25 Jul @ 2:26am
When it comes to Visa and Mastercard and their revenue what percentage is from Valve? 0.1%? or less which is drop in the ocean that Visa and Mastercard would not miss.

Valve needs their services, they do not need Valve.

Secondly you licence games you do not own them.

A game you reviewed. Fallout 4.

https://steamhost.cn/eula/377160_eula_0

LICENSE. Subject to this Agreement and its terms and conditions, LICENSOR hereby grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the Software for your personal, non-commercial use on a single home or portable computer. The Software is being licensed to you and you hereby acknowledge that no title or ownership in the Software is being transferred or assigned and this Agreement should not be construed as a sale or transfer of any rights in the Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by LICENSOR and, as applicable, its licensors.
Originally posted by _BLOOD_MOON_WOLF_:
valve needs to grow a backbone against corps like mastercard, visa and the like, i CANNOT trust steam if they are going to bow down to groups like mastercard and visa, allowing VAGUE POLICES THAT CAN BE WEAPONISED! screw that, i would rather give sony-playstation my data than use a platform that bows down to weaponised rules that visa and master card have no legal right to enforce, (you know, cos telling people what they can and will do is not freedom, its dictatorship) a rule that as japan has proved, fits into an illegality on a global concern, especially eu with it being monoplistic, anti consumer and denying of basic rights.

let me put it like this, i am not the only one of this view, but if this keeps up, i am walking away and demanding access to my games that I PAID FOR UNDER THE CONSENSUS OF LEGALLY OWNING MY COPIES and having access to them off of steam

my trust and thrust of many hundreds of thousands maybe even millions has been damaged, i do not think i want to come back to steam if things like bowing down to ILLEGAL rules being pushed onto steam is going to happen with valve letting it happen.

my game are all EXPLICITLY purchased under the understanding i own what i pay for, it was not presented face to face and i never physically signed my name on dotted lines of a paper contract.. no physical contract signed by my hand, no agreement.

i don't want to put trust in steam anymore, i want my games off of steam if this is going to keep happening.

i mean lets be honest here, yes the games removed by visa or mastercard or whoever i could care less about. but at the end of the day, censorship is censorship and censorship is denial of freedom of expression and denial of freedom of speech.

FICTION IS NOT REALITY.

i pay to own what i pay for and i pay to own WHAT I WANT. not what im told i can have and not a meagre licence to what i pay for. but if steam is going to allow a weaponisable rule that is a blatant indication of a f*cking monopoly forcing censorship that denies the right to freedom of speech and expression, the right to tell a story, to depict fantasy



its like going and destroying a painting by a certain austrian artist turned lunatic (i genuinely do not remember how to spell his name) because of what he did ignoring the art piece itself

steam valve, whichever, whomever reads this. my trust is damaged beyond repair. i am only going to stick around because i have spent money on things i like here, and if it was an option, i would politely request my owned games off of steam all together.. but its not.. so if this problem gets worse.. i will legally demand access to what i own off of steam.. i have been loyal for a long time, even through concerns, worries of being banned cos of overly verbose rules not making things clear if being kicked from lobbies by players for no reason or my wifi disconnecting, even through worries of what i own being removed from my library even to concerns of games i owned like borderlands being turned to malware/spyware with terms of service that violate basic rights i stuck around and now, now im not sure its worth it.


the last month, even with the 2 wins on saving games both eu and uk.. have not been a good month, not with risks of losing what i own, not with rules being forced where they do not belong, not with the uk's attempt at censoring all content viewed in the uk online. simply put, im not in a good mood anymore, and if this gets worse, if this censorship and that rule persist.. it WILL be the straw that breaks the horses back.



if this breaks rules, so be it, i was told to bring this concern here, so i did. i don't really care anymore, i've had enough. if this breaks any rule, if this is bannable i really don't care, what i care about, is protecting and enforcing my rights, censorship is a denial of rights, a double standard that does not belong


ffs we live in a world where breastfeeding is more obscene than murder.. thats not right.

if murder, war, propaganda is acceptable media, then so is fictional fantasy depictions of dark or taboo topics.
The issue with the statement of "grow some backbone" is the fact that Valve needs payment processors to run a business, but the payment processors does not need steam nor Valve to run a business.

Visa and Mastercard has already killed business in Japan, and they will gladly do it again, as long as there aren't any laws that prevents them from doing it.
Originally posted by Reuben:
Valve was never your friend, they've always been worse than EA or Ubisoft could ever hope to be, they just give you more appetisers to hide it.

The cult around Gaben was funny in the 00s and 10s and it's funny now.
That is just outright false, and I would bet everything on the fact that you have no evidence to prove that claim
Reuben 25 Jul @ 3:57am 
Originally posted by TBS AlexDK:
Originally posted by Reuben:
Valve was never your friend, they've always been worse than EA or Ubisoft could ever hope to be, they just give you more appetisers to hide it.

The cult around Gaben was funny in the 00s and 10s and it's funny now.
That is just outright false, and I would bet everything on the fact that you have no evidence to prove that claim
What is false about what I said?
Xureman 25 Jul @ 4:00am 
OK so leave Steam and abandon your collection of games.
You won't.
LMAO
Originally posted by Reuben:
Originally posted by TBS AlexDK:
That is just outright false, and I would bet everything on the fact that you have no evidence to prove that claim
What is false about what I said?
Basically all the statements in that post, but again, I would bet everything on the fact that you cannot prove your statements about Valve being the worst (of cause except the fact that no business is really your friend)
Last edited by TBS AlexDK; 25 Jul @ 4:01am
Reuben 25 Jul @ 4:24am 
Originally posted by TBS AlexDK:
Originally posted by Reuben:
What is false about what I said?
Basically all the statements in that post, but again, I would bet everything on the fact that you cannot prove your statements about Valve being the worst (of cause except the fact that no business is really your friend)
In no particular order, Valve have done the following:

Fought Australia over refund rights for years.

Conceived and popularised battle-passes.

Popularised lootboxes and microtransactions.

Sent cease and desist notices to some source mod projects.

Delisted games internationally because of American companies.

Deployed inconsistent bot moderation that lacks context and critical thought in its decision making.

Made the store/client less UI & UX friendly over time.

Promotes some of the worst EULAs out there.

Tried to push paid mods through the workshop.

Abandoned iconic IPs (lots of cliffhangers) and in some cases butchering them with VR, gambling, FOMO and other predatory mechanics.

Meanwhile the platform suffers from QoL issues, need I go on?
Last edited by Reuben; 25 Jul @ 4:49am
This isn't the the first wave of game banning they have done. Quite often we are seeing them remove games or force censorship onto the ones they have. Steam is a certainly bad place for adult indie games to be listed. This is a shame because this makes up quite a bit of my spending.

At least for now Erolabs seems to be unaffected by Visa's censorship. I spend quite a bit on Noctilucent: Before Dawn.
nullable 25 Jul @ 6:06am 
Originally posted by _BLOOD_MOON_WOLF_:
valve needs to grow a backbone against corps like mastercard, visa and the like, i CANNOT trust steam if they are going to bow down to groups like mastercard and visa, allowing VAGUE POLICES THAT CAN BE WEAPONISED! screw that, i would rather give sony-playstation my data than use a platform that bows down to weaponised rules that visa and master card have no legal right to enforce, (you know, cos telling people what they can and will do is not freedom, its dictatorship) a rule that as japan has proved, fits into an illegality on a global concern, especially eu with it being monoplistic, anti consumer and denying of basic rights.

It's like someone is only halfway to learning the world doesn't work like they think it works. Don't worry buddy, you'll get there... maybe.
Originally posted by Reuben:
Valve was never your friend, they've always been worse than EA or Ubisoft could ever hope to be, they just give you more appetisers to hide it.

The cult around Gaben was funny in the 00s and 10s and it's funny now.
Valves own standards for approving games were already sanctimonious, unreliable, arbitrary, and inconsistent before. But at least they had the slight justification of "the guy actually running the store gets a say (technically the intern with a five o clock shadow and neon hair but still)" as opposed to everyone having to desperately come up with copes as to why the middleman is entitled to do these things and how they actually make perfect sense and are totally for profit ackshually.
Originally posted by Reuben:
Originally posted by TBS AlexDK:
Basically all the statements in that post, but again, I would bet everything on the fact that you cannot prove your statements about Valve being the worst (of cause except the fact that no business is really your friend)
In no particular order, Valve have done the following:

Fought Australia over refund rights for years.
Everyone already had the ability to refund.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Conceived and popularised battle-passes.
A concept likely driven by gaining profit from F2P games, due to the rising popularity of Lootboxes from china and MTX from south korea.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Popularised lootboxes and microtransactions.
Lootboxes; china; giant interactive group, zt online
MTX; south korea; nexon, quizquiz & maple story

adopted by Electronic Arts in 2009 for FIFA 09, adopted by valve in 2010 for TF2.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Sent cease and desist notices to some source mod projects.
You mean because of the engine exploits for source? The other reason is not clearly stated other than "not a good fit" which typically means something incorrect was done or the people involved were not a good fit to represent such a project.
Black Mesa is allowed to be sold on the store with Valves blessing and uses the source engine

Originally posted by Reuben:
Delisted games internationally because of American companies.
There are various reasons for delisting games from portrayal of minors in sexual situations, legal conflicts between companies such as IP theft/asset theft/fights etc, expired licensing, "at request of the developer/publisher" etc.
Valve already disallowed for sale/banned games before visa/mc got involved.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Deployed inconsistent bot moderation that lacks context and critical thought in its decision making.
Human moderation that uses copy/paste replies. Typically they only hit troublemakers and some of the most vocal anti-mod users tend to have an immense history, mistakes can easily be undone. Game Hub mods are also not Steam mods unless a steam mod/support member is noted as the one assigning punishment.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Made the store/client less UI & UX friendly over time.
It's better than the old "sewage green" client, still consumes little resources (Avg ~500mb), and is significantly friendly compared to other clients, not to mention practically instant especially compared to epics launcher. They also recently added accessibility improvements to the ui.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Promotes some of the worst EULAs out there.
Huge difference between promoting and letting Devs/Publishers have their own and use their own for their own products.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Tried to push paid mods through the workshop.
Have you seen Bethesdas games? "Creation Club"?

Originally posted by Reuben:
Abandoned iconic IPs (lots of cliffhangers) and in some cases butchering them with VR, gambling, FOMO and other predatory mechanics.
They were mediocre but highly recognizable for their times, iconic largely due to popularity and little variety of the times. Many companies adopted the chinese/south korean ideas of profit making from free games which allows them to continue operation and get a profit, nothing new there.

Originally posted by Reuben:
Meanwhile the platform suffers from QoL issues, need I go on?
The accessibility update was quite a QoL improvement for a decent amount of people.
Originally posted by Reuben:
Originally posted by TBS AlexDK:
Basically all the statements in that post, but again, I would bet everything on the fact that you cannot prove your statements about Valve being the worst (of cause except the fact that no business is really your friend)
In no particular order, Valve have done the following:

Fought Australia over refund rights for years.

Conceived and popularised battle-passes.

Popularised lootboxes and microtransactions.

Sent cease and desist notices to some source mod projects.

Delisted games internationally because of American companies.

Deployed inconsistent bot moderation that lacks context and critical thought in its decision making.

Made the store/client less UI & UX friendly over time.

Promotes some of the worst EULAs out there.

Tried to push paid mods through the workshop.

Abandoned iconic IPs (lots of cliffhangers) and in some cases butchering them with VR, gambling, FOMO and other predatory mechanics.

Meanwhile the platform suffers from QoL issues, need I go on?
Oh boy you just laid into a lot of the men here's girlfriend lol. We are about to see about 10 pages of "Well ackshually." On the bright side everyobe will suddenly decide to agree that Valve mods are great at context now for the rest of this thread.
Originally posted by William Shakesman:
Originally posted by Reuben:
In no particular order, Valve have done the following:

Fought Australia over refund rights for years.

Conceived and popularised battle-passes.

Popularised lootboxes and microtransactions.

Sent cease and desist notices to some source mod projects.

Delisted games internationally because of American companies.

Deployed inconsistent bot moderation that lacks context and critical thought in its decision making.

Made the store/client less UI & UX friendly over time.

Promotes some of the worst EULAs out there.

Tried to push paid mods through the workshop.

Abandoned iconic IPs (lots of cliffhangers) and in some cases butchering them with VR, gambling, FOMO and other predatory mechanics.

Meanwhile the platform suffers from QoL issues, need I go on?
Oh boy you just laid into a lot of the men here's girlfriend lol. We are about to see about 10 pages of "Well ackshually." On the bright side everyobe will suddenly decide to agree that Valve mods are great at context now for the rest of this thread.
Well a lot of those points are just not completly true or as bad as the person makes it out, and no, Valve mods are not great at context, cause they only look at the reported post and not all the other posts.
And the point about delisted games due to American companies, only happened because countries does not seem to actually have any laws preventing payment processors from controlling what is and isn't allowed to be sold, outside of what is already illegal to sell, and business need payment processors in order to actually earn money, no store is safe from Visa and Mastercard as it stands right now, unless they want to lose access to every card network that are used globally
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