Sorry, your in the wrong forum, This is a STEAM related sub-forum, to discuss Ideas and suggestions for valve to make to the steam User Interface on the App, client and website and the online steam services.

Steam already provides more then enough account security and Marketplace Protections.

Per the steam SSA / TOS that every account holder agrees to, when creating your steam account.

You the account owner is 100% fully responsible for all account security.

Any actions done on or with the account are the responsibility of the account owner, including wallet funds, game or hub bans, any trades made are final.

There is no flaw on steam's side of anything, it is all on the user, don't give away your steam credentials.......

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

One of the most common scams on Steam involves someone with a compromised account having items sold or/and store purchases refunded and their wallet balance deducted when purchasing overpriced items on the marketplace.

I see this frequently, and I know it's the users' own fault, but what I don't understand is how can an item available for $0.03 can be sold for $30.00?

Because users are free to price their items however they want, they're not obligated to price them in a way that makes sense to you or that you approve of. The first time you try to sell something and Valve tells you now you can only price it X, methinks you're gonna have opinions about being micromanaged.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

This is an example:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/market/listings/570/Loading%20Screen%20of%20the%20Stoutheart%20Growler
The three spikes on the graph are likely items scammers are selling to victims.

Isn't this a Steam flaw, and scammers exploit this loophole in the system?
After all, they're the same pixels, no matter what.

If Steam automatically made the purchase at the lowest price available, returning the "change," this scam wouldn't work.

You may be right, but it can be difficult to create a system that users can use, that scammers can't use.

Sometimes users misprice things, sometimes users misread things and buy them.

Way back in the day in World of Warcraft there was some cape I was keeping my eye on the auction house. And the price would flucate between 260-320 gold. I was waiting for the next dip and one day I looked someone posted the cape for 2 gold, 64 silver. I'm sure they meant to put in 264 gold and didn't notice it before I bought it.

Way back in the day in World of Warcraft I was buying different mounts, and usually they were 200 gold so I was thoughtless going around buying mounts. And surprise ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Hippogryph was 2,000 gold. I noticed because, where did all my gold go? Well ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Not every user mistake is proof of a scam. They happen.

Also I wouldn't underestimate some users adding a zero to the price of something and hoping for an accidental purchase. Not really a scam, but I'm sure it happens because humans are fallible.

Originally posted by pckirk:

Sorry, your in the wrong forum, This is a STEAM related sub-forum, to discuss Ideas and suggestions for valve to make to the steam User Interface on the App, client and website and the online steam services.

Steam already provides more then enough account security and Marketplace Protections.

Per the steam SSA / TOS that every account holder agrees to, when creating your steam account.

You the account owner is 100% fully responsible for all account security.

[...]

I am not in the wrong forum. This is a suggestion to prevent this from happening in the future. This is not an off-topic or a complaint.


About your cooment, I have never had my account compromised.

I'm posting this because I frequently respond to threads from users who have experienced this. Yep. It's their fault, but I believe this scam could have been avoided.

Originally posted by nullable:

You may be right, but it can be difficult to create a system that users can use, that scammers can't use.

Sometimes users misprice things, sometimes users misread things and buy them.

Way back in the day in World of Warcraft there was some cape I was keeping my eye on the auction house. And the price would flucate between 260-320 gold. I was waiting for the next dip and one day I looked someone posted the cape for 2 gold, 64 silver. I'm sure they meant to put in 264 gold and didn't notice it before I bought it.

Way back in the day in World of Warcraft I was buying different mounts, and usually they were 200 gold so I was thoughtless going around buying mounts. And surprise ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Hippogryph was 2,000 gold. I noticed because, where did all my gold go? Well ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Not every user mistake is proof of a scam. They happen.

Also I wouldn't underestimate some users adding a zero to the price of something and hoping for an accidental purchase. Not really a scam, but I'm sure it happens because humans are fallible.

Look. I understand that the forum works this way, and everyone can sell their item for whatever they want. What I don't understand is why someone would offer 20 or 50 times more for an item that's exactly the same as another much lower price.

This isn't a choice made by a buyer who prefers yellow over green, or because the seller is better, or because it's in better condition. The item is always the same in this case.

If I'm buying an item, I automatically choose the cheapest one, and in the case of this scam, I believe it could be solved by automatically purchasing the cheaper item.

Yep. This IS a flaw in the system.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

Look. I understand that the forum works this way, and everyone can sell their item for whatever they want. What I don't understand is why someone would offer 20 or 50 times more for an item that's exactly the same as another much lower price.

"I understand users can price things however they want. I don't understand why users price things however they want."

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

This isn't a choice made by a buyer who prefers yellow over green, or because the seller is better, or because it's in better condition. The item is always the same in this case.

If I'm buying an item, I automatically choose the cheapest one, and in the case of this scam, I believe it could be solved by automatically purchasing the cheaper item.

Yep. This IS a flaw in the system.

Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel Prize in economics for basically proving that the underlying theory that in any transactions each party can be expected to operate in their own best interests. What Kahneman found is that theory isn't necessarily true if any of the parties is a human being.

In short you might make rational choices, or engage in reasonable behavior. Not everyone is going to mirror that. Fussing over why people do things differently than you is crazy making. They do. They're free to. It doesn't concern you really. Being able to identify anomalies may not make your assumptions (always) true or actionable.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with the system always auto-buying the cheapest item. However other implementations may not be flawed, they may just be different. So I'd be curious why Valve didn't go with the implementation you're recommending when they developed the system. Do they have specific reasons, or did they simply not think of the system being used certain ways? They could have been missing info back then, you could be missing info now. You're not wrong, but you might benefit from keeping a few more options open too. Leaves room for learning new things, which long term leads to better recommendations/ideas.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

I'm posting this because I frequently respond to threads from users who have experienced this. Yep. It's their fault, but I believe this scam could have been avoided.

How exactly can it be avoided when it is their fault by giving away all their account details.

Secondly it is a free market. Person A can price it at X and person B can buy it or not at X.

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

I'm posting this because I frequently respond to threads from users who have experienced this. Yep. It's their fault, but I believe this scam could have been avoided.

How exactly can it be avoided when it is their fault by giving away all their account details.

Secondly it is a free market. Person A can price it at X and person B can buy it or not at X.

What if market purchase that were made outside a reasonable price difference from the norm were reversible like CS2 trades now are?
So if an account buys an item that is usually sold for around 5¢, but paid $30 for it, the funds are pending for 7 days and they buyer could reverse the purchase. That's just basic fraud protection and the system should see that the purchase might be fraudulent in some way.

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

[...] it is a free market. Person A can price it at X and person B can buy it or not at X.

"Buy or not at X"
There is no such option in what I mention.

Two scenarios:

1. You go to a supermarket, and a loaf of bread costs $5.00 There is a price tag in it. There's another with a mislabeled price tag, which says $55.00. You don't notice and take it to the register, pay, and when you get home, realize the mistake.

2. You go to buy a $2.00 item on the Steam marketplace, and accidentally add an extra zero and press enter. Someone got lucky, and you got screwed.

This system isn't fair.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

1. You go to a supermarket, and a loaf of bread costs $5.00 There is a price tag in it. There's another with a mislabeled price tag, which says $55.00. You don't notice and take it to the register, pay, and when you get home, realize the mistake.

Users determine the price they want to buy or sell at for the market;

Buy:

What price do you want to pay:
How many do you want to buy:

Sell:

You Receive:
Buyer Pays:

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

2. You go to buy a $2.00 item on the Steam marketplace, and accidentally add an extra zero and press enter. Someone got lucky, and you got screwed.

This system isn't fair.

"Measure twice, cut once" is something that applies to many things, ie, look before hitting Submit.

Last I saw, items with greatly differing prices tend to hold for longer when attempting them.

The best way to avoid overall scams; not using the Steam Login outside of the Steam Client.

Seriously. I can't understand this community.
It seems to only operate on the basis of denial.

I'm not offering here a way to gain something or something for my own personal interest.

It's not just a matter of falling for a scam, but simply for justice/injustice.

I mentioned the supermarket and sliced ​​bread as examples, but these stores stopped typing prices a long time ago. The're not using abacus.

If you get a $55.00 price tag on a product selling for $5.00, when you scan the barcode, it will be $5.00. It doesn't matter what the price is on the tag or on the shelf.

But the Steam Market doesn't work this way. It's a system that doesn't prevent typing errors, much less prevent scammers from profiting from unsuspecting people.

Steam recently implemented the ability to cancel trades made up to 7 days ago, specifically targeting users who fall for scams, so I see no reason to completely reject this suggestion.

But it's fine with me.

I always double-check that I've entered amounts and other information correctly before confirming, and I've never had any problems with scammers.
In other words, it doesn't matter to me, but I worry about others and these traps they go through.

I'm done here!
It seems to me that all that matters around here is your own well-being, and to hell with everyone else.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

"Buy or not at X"
There is no such option in what I mention.

Two scenarios:

1. You go to a supermarket, and a loaf of bread costs $5.00 There is a price tag in it. There's another with a mislabeled price tag, which says $55.00. You don't notice and take it to the register, pay, and when you get home, realize the mistake.

2. You go to buy a $2.00 item on the Steam marketplace, and accidentally add an extra zero and press enter. Someone got lucky, and you got screwed.

This system isn't fair.

There are options because purchasing is voluntary not mandatory.

1. You would realise the mistake before you paid as soon as they stated $55 for a loaf of bread.

2. Not being observant of your actions leads to mistakes, but they are your actions to own.

So we go back to:

It is a free market. Person A can price it at X and person B can buy it or not at X.

Why? Because there is no rigidity in a free market, pricing is fluid and what you are willing to pay is fluid.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

I mentioned the supermarket and sliced ​​bread as examples, but these stores stopped typing prices a long time ago. The're not using abacus.

If you get a $55.00 price tag on a product selling for $5.00, when you scan the barcode, it will be $5.00. It doesn't matter what the price is on the tag or on the shelf.

"Supermarket" is a flawed example;

3rd party prices would be users here on the Community Market; notice community market, which means it's things others have acquired from a higher source like a Developers game. Users basically control the overall prices of items/skins on the Community Market. You buy or sell at whatever amount you determine you want - and if one has not chosen to compromise their account - its only their choice, not someone they authorized on their behalf.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

But the Steam Market doesn't work this way. It's a system that doesn't prevent typing errors, much less prevent scammers from profiting from unsuspecting people.

As said "measure twice, cut once". Look before hitting submit, that's entirely on the user. It takes a split second to look and verify, the point of hitting submit is the user sees the information is accurate, as-desired by the user.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

Steam recently implemented the ability to cancel trades made up to 7 days ago, specifically targeting users who fall for scams, so I see no reason to completely reject this suggestion.

Generally, they can only do so much or are only willing to do so much for user error.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

I always double-check that I've entered amounts and other information correctly before confirming, and I've never had any problems with scammers.
In other words, it doesn't matter to me, but I worry about others and these traps they go through.

More schools should teach common internet security in early education to high school, it would prevent people for falling for a lot of scams. Parents can also teach their children.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

It seems to me that all that matters around here is your own well-being, and to hell with everyone else.

The issue is many people choose to ignore common sense, or warnings from others that things are scams or will hijack accounts. When people click a link that leaves Steam, there's a notice, many just ignore it which is entirely their decision which can have consequences if the warning isn't read, like a compromised account - all the users personal choices.

Putting price controls on the market is probably a very tricky thing to get right. Obviously $30 is wrong. Obviously $20 is wrong. Obviously $10. Obviously $5. Obviously $1. Obviously .50?

Originally posted by pckirk:

Sorry, your in the wrong forum, This is a STEAM related sub-forum, to discuss Ideas and suggestions for valve to make to the steam User Interface on the App, client and website and the online steam services.

Steam already provides more then enough account security and Marketplace Protections.

Per the steam SSA / TOS that every account holder agrees to, when creating your steam account.

You the account owner is 100% fully responsible for all account security.

Any actions done on or with the account are the responsibility of the account owner, including wallet funds, game or hub bans, any trades made are final.

There is no flaw on steam's side of anything, it is all on the user, don't give away your steam credentials.......

This is the right forum for this. And as you said earlier that it is right for Valve to not include a delete function to defend against stolen accounts, it is equally right for Valve to include market protections as OP suggested for the same justification. You cannot have it both ways. It helps to be consistent on these things.

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

[...] it is a free market. Person A can price it at X and person B can buy it or not at X.

"Buy or not at X"
There is no such option in what I mention.

Two scenarios:

1. You go to a supermarket, and a loaf of bread costs $5.00 There is a price tag in it. There's another with a mislabeled price tag, which says $55.00. You don't notice and take it to the register, pay, and when you get home, realize the mistake.

2. You go to buy a $2.00 item on the Steam marketplace, and accidentally add an extra zero and press enter. Someone got lucky, and you got screwed.

This system isn't fair.

In the supermarket scenario involves the person making a mistake by not looking at the price, that is user error and is completely at the fault of the user. We are describing someone in the supermarket with someone else's credit card, using that card to purchase an item that normally sells for $X being actively purchased for that amount knowing it is too much or too little compared to the other sales. By happenstance the company selling that item is owned by the person who has the stolen credit card, so they would benefit from this. The stolen cc would be due to user error, not the supermarket's. The system is plenty fair, the users simply need to improve their habits. My accounts are never compromised yet I see a handful of topics each week where someone's account has been compromised. Fix users and suddenly scams reduce.

One day there were the final words, but there were some stuck in the throat that...

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

It is a free market. Person A can price it at X and person B can buy it or not at X.

Why? Because there is no rigidity in a free market, pricing is fluid and what you are willing to pay is fluid.

Oh! Sorry, but if you see the exact same product for different prices, you'll choose the cheaper one, after all, you are not a fool.

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

[snip]

You are focusing only on careless users.
I know that the title says basically that, but there are other points.

And it's not just users who log in with their Steam credentials on third-party sites. There are also those who accidentally acquire malware, the kind that steals cookies and so on.

The truth is, there's much more to it than that.

Originally posted by William Shakesman:

Putting price controls on the market is probably a very tricky thing to get right. Obviously $30 is wrong. Obviously $20 is wrong. Obviously $10. Obviously $5. Obviously $1. Obviously .50?

Who's talking about price control?
If there are 500 items like mine for sale for $0.03, sure I can ask $10.00 for mine, but who's going to buy it?
What I'm talking about, is that I'll never be able to sell mine until it's the cheapest.
It's a forced law of supply and demand.

Originally posted by The Living Tribunal:

In the supermarket scenario involves the person making a mistake by not looking at the price, that is user error and is completely at the fault of the user. We are describing someone in the supermarket with someone else's credit card, using that card to purchase an item that normally sells for $X being actively purchased for that amount knowing it is too much or too little compared to the other sales. By happenstance the company selling that item is owned by the person who has the stolen credit card, so they would benefit from this. The stolen cc would be due to user error, not the supermarket's. The system is plenty fair, the users simply need to improve their habits. My accounts are never compromised yet I see a handful of topics each week where someone's account has been compromised. Fix users and suddenly scams reduce.

I later mentioned that the supermarket has a barcode reader, and consequently a database.
You'll never be able to buy an overpriced item there unless they change the packaging.

Besides, there's no way to fix users. Just like cheaters, this is called greed. If they're promising a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, or they want to buy theirs for more than they're worth, why not?

But the system needs to help protect these fools. There are so many, and this abusive profit from scammers will never end.
Yeah. The scammers will get rich!

Originally posted by Sr. Xyz:

Who's talking about price control?
If there are 500 items like mine for sale for $0.03, sure I can ask $10.00 for mine, but who's going to buy it?
What I'm talking about, is that I'll never be able to sell mine until it's the cheapest.
It's a forced law of supply and demand.

Thinking about it from that point of view, it does make an important point that nobody in this thread has answered: for a commodity item in which there is no difference between the items, what is the non-abusive use case for a buyer choosing a markedly more expensive listing than the lowest price? Valve has removed previously functionality that looked less like money laundering for risks like that.