What are the “major wars” exactly? 🤷‍♂️

Originally posted by Affronter:

What are the “major wars” exactly? 🤷‍♂️

The Russo-Ukrainian war and the Israel-Gaza war.

Originally posted by Affronter:

What are the “major wars” exactly? 🤷‍♂️

nintendo vs playstation

steam vs console

Originally posted by Devious:

EDIT : the two major wars being the Russo-Ukrainian war, and the Israel-Gaza war.

From all I've observed :

Hard left : Sides with Russia and Palestine
Moderate left : Sides with Ukraine, ambivalent on Israel/Palestine
Moderate right : Ambivalent on Russia/Ukraine, sides with Israel
Hard right : Sides with Russia and Palestine

This is less of a horseshoe, and more of a camel-toe theory. It certainly holds true for me (a dirty center-left liberal). So, what's your position on both wars?

I fit on moderate right according to your scale :D.

Though I should add, my experience with "hard right", assuming you mean far right, is different. They support Ukraine because of the prevalence of NN in Ukraine and also because they hate Russia because of its history as the USSR. They hate both sides in the Israel Palestine war.

These wars are still going on?

Originally posted by Devious:

Originally posted by Affronter:

What are the “major wars” exactly? 🤷‍♂️

The Russo-Ukrainian war and the Israel-Gaza war.

Oh, the decades-long hissy fits. Only opinion is: “meh”.

Originally posted by vkobe:

Originally posted by Affronter:

What are the “major wars” exactly? 🤷‍♂️

nintendo vs playstation

steam vs console

Hold on. I’m still on the Betamax vs VHS conflict.

I think you forgot one:

Sane person: Hates war. Just wants it all to stop Why can't we all just get along?

>_>

Yeah, I know we don't get along, but we should.

I don't know that the far-right necessarily supports Palestine over Israel, plenty of neo-Nazis like their vision of Israel being a predominantly white nation ethnically cleansing brown skinned people because they see the legitimisation of such behaviour, on the global stage, to be useful in working towards and legitimising themselves doing the same thing in their own countries. And some of them just like the fact that Jews and Muslims are dying overseas under any circumstances..

I also think the moderate left ambivalence toward Palestine is like a dam, beginning to crack and spray jets of water, it's getting harder to deny the full horrors of how literally millions of civilians are being treated and how unjustified it is.

For myself I strongly support Western support for Ukraine, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Putin must either lose outright or gain almost nothing at a ruinous cost, not just for Ukraine, not just for Europe but to teach a lesson to the whole world that we are not going back to the days of imperial conquest, of empires ruling by might and genocide, or else we're doomed as a species to never achieve lasting peace and development for all of humanity, a Ukrainian victory would be a victory for humanity itself as nations are dissuaded from copying Putin.

As for Palestine; the ethnic cleansing in the West Bank must end.
The deliberate starving and killing of civilians in Gaza must end.
I strongly support sanctions being brought against Israel to force the current government to the negotiating table.

I shouldn't have to support such things against an otherwise wonderful country like Israel but the current regime has gone too far.

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Devious:

EDIT : the two major wars being the Russo-Ukrainian war, and the Israel-Gaza war.

From all I've observed :

Hard left : Sides with Russia and Palestine
Moderate left : Sides with Ukraine, ambivalent on Israel/Palestine
Moderate right : Ambivalent on Russia/Ukraine, sides with Israel
Hard right : Sides with Russia and Palestine

This is less of a horseshoe, and more of a camel-toe theory. It certainly holds true for me (a dirty center-left liberal). So, what's your position on both wars?

I fit on moderate right according to your scale :D.

Though I should add, my experience with "hard right", assuming you mean far right, is different. They support Ukraine because of the prevalence of NN in Ukraine and also because they hate Russia because of its history as the USSR. They hate both sides in the Israel Palestine war.

You got me, I wanted to remain somewhat impartial, and use the less inflammatory term "hard right" instead of "far-right" for all right-wing populist stances.

But I don't know, I've seen a lot of these guys being drawn to Russia since it's supposedly the last bastion of true conservatism against effeminate, globalist liberal democracies, at least among White-majority countries. The Neo-Nazi thing isn't totally made up, but it really isn't that prevalent in Ukraine compared to other Eastern-European countries, if you look at the make up of their governemnt and military.

And, some of these guys (especailly the uber far-right) also tend to dislike Israel, for fairly obvious reasons.

Definitely with Ukraine but I don't think my country is going to keep helping them unfortunately. I still want them to find a way to defeat Russia. They had a great start but things haven't gone their way lately. I just hope Russia doesn't decide to use a nuke.

Originally posted by Devious:

EDIT : the two major wars being the Russo-Ukrainian war, and the Israel-Gaza war.

From all I've observed :

Hard left : Sides with Russia and Palestine
Moderate left : Sides with Ukraine, ambivalent on Israel/Palestine
Moderate right : Ambivalent on Russia/Ukraine, sides with Israel
Hard right : Sides with Russia and Palestine

This is less of a horseshoe, and more of a camel-toe theory. It certainly holds true for me (a dirty center-left liberal). So, what's your position on both wars?

I fit into hard right option. Although I do not support either Israel and Palestine. As for Russia, I know they are winning hands down. Whom in the right mind would go against a nuclear power is beyond my comprehension.

The listed categories do not make sense. Most people on the left I hear are on the side of Ukraine, and Palestine. Despite Russia and Iran being close allies. And vice versa for the other side.

If all country's and there people bend the knee to Putin the wars would stop. Putin/Russia #1

Originally posted by Santa Klaus:

I don't know that the far-right necessarily supports Palestine over Israel, plenty of neo-Nazis like their vision of Israel being a predominantly white nation ethnically cleansing brown skinned people because they see the legitimisation of such behaviour, on the global stage, to be useful in working towards and legitimising themselves doing the same thing in their own countries. And some of them just like the fact that Jews and Muslims are dying overseas under any circumstances..

Valid, though the racial distinction between the average Israeli Jew and Palestinian Arab is pretty damn thin, something I think both sides™ often forget. But yes, in both right and left American culture, Jews are generally considered part of the "White race".

Anyway, you make a good point that the far-right isn't a fan of Arabs either, but in that particular group, antisemitism is an older and deeper idea that's seeing a lot of resurgence. Anti-Arab and anti-Muslim hatred was more of a neocon phenomenon, a dying breed in the modern right. If anything, the most extreme of these guys (Nick Fuentes types) are finding common ground with actual Islamists.

Originally posted by Santa Klaus:

I also think the moderate left ambivalence toward Palestine is like a dam, beginning to crack and spray jets of water, it's getting harder to deny the full horrors of how literally millions of civilians are being treated and how unjustified it is.

Fair again, but while condemnation of Israel is becoming the default even among liberals like myself, few would go so far as to support Hamas or Hezbollah, and I would say thank God for that. In practice, "I hate both sides but care about the civilians" is an ambivalent position, one that you might find cowardly but that I will absolutely defend in this instance.

Originally posted by Santa Klaus:

For myself I strongly support Western support for Ukraine, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Putin must either lose outright or gain almost nothing at a ruinous cost, not just for Ukraine, not just for Europe but to teach a lesson to the whole world that we are not going back to the days of imperial conquest, of empires ruling by might and genocide, or else we're doomed as a species to never achieve lasting peace and development for all of humanity, a Ukrainian victory would be a victory for humanity itself as nations are dissuaded from copying Putin.

No arguments there. I'm glad we agree.

Originally posted by Santa Klaus:

As for Palestine; the ethnic cleansing in the West Bank must end.
The deliberate starving and killing of civilians in Gaza must end.
I strongly support sanctions being brought against Israel to force the current government to the negotiating table.

I shouldn't have to support such things against an otherwise wonderful country like Israel but the current regime has gone too far.

Certainly. But my criticism of people further left than I is that they operate with an entirely Western framework (the oppressor vs. the oppressed), whereas most Palestinians and Israelis today reject both a two-states and even moreso a one-state solution (that doesn't involve the other side being ethnically cleansed). Just look at polling.

I am extremely cynical and fatalistic on this issue because Israel has been exceptionally disgraceful in victory, and the Arab world, stupid in defeat, leaving us with an unending crisis that we'd be better off washing our hands from imo.

Originally posted by cheetah1546:

Definitely with Ukraine but I don't think my country is going to keep helping them unfortunately. I still want them to find a way to defeat Russia. They had a great start but things haven't gone their way lately. I just hope Russia doesn't decide to use a nuke.

Ukraine will likely have to cede around 20% of its land to Russia, but they probably won't totally collapse either. Nor will Russia resort to nukes. They'd turn themselves into a permanent pariah state (perhaps even to China) for meagre territorial gains.