A literal devil's advocate: "The human brain didn't just pop into existence from nothing it evolved over billions of years from single-celled organisms."

That doesn't make creationism more plausible (I assume you mean more plausible than the current, accepted model). Sure, it's possible, but improbable.

I'd say it's much more plausible that those ancient people you mentioned in your first paragraph had no real understanding of how things work, and just came up with a story that made sense to them.

I don't know why people have *that* much of a problem with evolution that they gotta do these ridiculous mental gymnastics. It's not like it even disproves the existence of God.

If you ask me, physics is a lot more damning towards Christianity than biology.

Originally posted by Devious:

If you ask me, physics is a lot more damning towards Christianity than biology.

Why do you say that?

Originally posted by Houseman:

A literal devil's advocate: "The human brain didn't just pop into existence from nothing it evolved over billions of years from single-celled organisms."

Yeah, they accuse religious people of explaining everything away with, "God did it," yet they shamelessly explain everything with, "Billions of years did it!"

Atheists, you guys are being what you accuse religious people of, but worse, because at least religious people attribute our existence to purposeful intelligence, which makes a lot more sense than we just being a random accident.

Originally posted by Houseman:

Originally posted by Devious:

If you ask me, physics is a lot more damning towards Christianity than biology.

Why do you say that?

Well, for example, there's little evidence for free will as we typically conceive it. Unlike evolution, it's not a settled debate by any means, but most physicists and neurologists heavily lean towards the idea that consciousness has little to no bearing on decision-making.

If that is true, Christianity makes no sense, unless you believe in predestination (which has its own issues, both logical and moral).

Originally posted by Maverick:

Yeah, they accuse religious people of explaining everything away with, "God did it," yet they shamelessly explain everything with, "Billions of years did it!"

The hard part about arguing with a theist is the theist doesn't need to explain their position, nor could they. "God did it" is plenty, because that's all their position is.

Meanwhile the atheist basically needs to be an expert in every field from paleontology to physics in order to explain their position, and the second they don't know the answer to a question, the theist goes, "Ah ha! Gotcha!" If an atheist isn't an expert, a lot of the argument does boil down to "billions of years did it". Of course it's much, much more involved than that, but we can't expect every atheist to hold a doctorate in evolutionary biology.

Personally, I'm not technically an atheist. The atheist is certain that there is no God, which I think requires just as much faith as the theist who is certain that God exists. Opposite sides of the same coin.

My own position could be considered agnostic, however I do hold a position on the existence of God. I'm not certain about it though. I don't think it's possible for me to truly be certain.

I think that God and the universe itself are the same thing. Religion did it's best to try and explain things from the knowledge they had at the time, but the thing is we're constantly learning new things about the universe and we're constantly revising our knowledge as new knowledge comes into play, and we know much more today than we did thousands of years ago when these texts were written. I think that to learn more about the universe is to know God better.

Originally posted by Devious:

Originally posted by Houseman:

Why do you say that?

Well, for example, there's little evidence for free will as we typically conceive it. Unlike evolution, it's not a settled debate by any means, but most physicists and neurologists heavily lean towards the idea that consciousness has little to no bearing on decision-making.

If that is true, Christianity makes no sense, unless you believe in predestination (which has its own issues, both logical and moral).

If by free will, you are referring to the debate about determinism, where cause and effect causes matter to move, so theoretically, if one were omniscient, they could predict the movement of every atom, and therefore, every other thing in existence.

Currently, there are things that scientists have declared to be random, such as radioactive decay. They can't determine which atom will fly off from a mass next, or derive any patterns from it. Random number generators and cryptology use radioactive decay, and other random sources, such as lava lamps, to produce unpredictable patterns. Randomness exists, as far as we can tell.

This may also just be the fallacy of composition. What is true for the part is not necessarily true for the whole. Just because you can predict the movement of an atom, it doesn't mean you can predict the movements of a human, which are made up of atoms.

By the way, I do not believe in predestination.

It's not hard to believe because it's impossible, it's hard to believe because it probably didn't happen.

I mean sure, it'd be much easier for god to make everything than it would be for everything to just evolve. That's not the real question. To believe creation you have to believe that god exists with no explanation as to why or how. It doesn't really solve anything, it just moves the problem.

Supposedly the eye is very unlikely to evolve naturally like it is

Originally posted by shoopy:

I mean sure, it'd be much easier for god to make everything than it would be for everything to just evolve. That's not the real question. To believe creation you have to believe that god exists with no explanation as to why or how. It doesn't really solve anything, it just moves the problem.

Nobody claims to know why or how the "big bang" happened either, just that it did.

It's okay to not know everything.

Originally posted by Houseman:

Originally posted by shoopy:

I mean sure, it'd be much easier for god to make everything than it would be for everything to just evolve. That's not the real question. To believe creation you have to believe that god exists with no explanation as to why or how. It doesn't really solve anything, it just moves the problem.

Nobody claims to know why or how the "big bang" happened either, just that it did.

It's okay to not know everything.

In that case, why can't the universe itself be intelligent? Why does it have to be god?

Originally posted by shoopy:

Originally posted by Houseman:

Nobody claims to know why or how the "big bang" happened either, just that it did.

It's okay to not know everything.

In that case, why can't the universe itself be intelligent? Why does it have to be god?

If the universe itself is intelligent, then who's to say it isn't God?

Originally posted by xDDD:

Originally posted by shoopy:

In that case, why can't the universe itself be intelligent? Why does it have to be god?

If the universe itself is intelligent, then whose to say it isn't God?

The Bible for one. But maybe it is god, just not that specific god.

Originally posted by Maverick:

Do you really think its plausible that the infinitely more complex universe and the human brain did not require an intelligent mind?

yes :3