Higher Education has a bad reputation of being an ideological black-hole where decent people go to DEI

Half the population won't do your job for you.

Cue the conspiracy theories and political rhetoric.....

Some won't go because they don't have to. If they dont know what to do in college, then why go? Oh and the "experience" excuse is not a good reason.

Originally posted by Arvaos:

Only about 1 in 3 adults holds a bachelor’s degree or higher, and just over half have any post-secondary credential at all. That means nearly half of American adults stop their education at high school.

For a nation that often links success with degrees, this is a disconnect. Cost is a huge barrier, college tuition has skyrocketed, and student debt can be crushing.

The result? Millions are left navigating a job market that increasingly demands credentials they couldn’t afford.

Not exactly, most employment would like to see "hands-on" experience rather than straight education. While holding a BA degree is nice however it doesn't help the company if a person has no experience for the field that they applied for.

High schools and colleges does provide internship/on the job training to prepare the students for real world on the job.

First of all, and?

Higher education doesn’t necessarily mean smarter people nor more savvy ones, as countless examples throughout the last few decades have shown.
Pick up a random video of “asking questions to college students about X” and you’ll easily get the idea that colleges are not in fact making people smarter.
And it’s not like it happens only when incredibly complex topics of conversation are involved; there are people who literally do not know the list of amendments, state capitals, current sitting governors or secretaries etc etc.
Let alone real life question like “how do you pay taxes?” or “how are you planning to pay off your college debt?”

This myth that more degrees = a better society is just that, a myth.


Secondly you’re mixing data points (as usual, just shouting that studies show without actually referring to the specific study).
The adult population of the USA is composed of people that have finished high school last year and people who finished it 60 years ago.
Obviously the job market at the time was much different and that directly tied to the need (or the desire) to pursue higher education.
Sure, if you wanted to be a doctor, or an engineer or a lawyer you went to college; but most jobs back then did not require you to hold a degree nor were you competing with people holding them for those positions.
As a result I’d say it is perfectly natural that the majority of US adults do not hold anything more than a high school degree.
And coincidentally that is also why tuition costs rose sharply.

Even setting aside the argument that the government is effectively loaning students endless amounts of money which universities are only too happy to gobble up by hiking tuition of the poor sap who don’t have a clue as to how their going to pay off the debt, the undeniable reality is that 60 years ago universities had to compete with each other to attract the 10k people going to college each year (number completely made up, just to give a scale); today the opposite is true: we have more people wanting to go to college than students being taken on by those colleges, and as a result it is the people who are competing with each other while the universities always have their set amount of students.
In the former system hiking tuition meant students would go elsewhere and you’d actually lose money; right now it means you’re still getting the full number of students you set as your objective and they all pay more for the privilege.

That's true, but from an economics perspective alone, trade jobs can be just as valuable as white-collar jobs these days, and oftentimes more so (especially if AI does end up strangling the job market). I wouldn't say a university degree is required for success. Blue-collar work is just as respectable, and in many ways a safer bet.

My worry has more to do with the perception of higher education, science and intellectual pursuits in general in the US. When people actually think universities are purveyors of "indoctrination" and "DEI ideology", your country is kinda cooked.

its a waste of time higher education you end up at the same job in the first place

Originally posted by Devious:

That's true, but from an economics perspective alone, trade jobs can be just as valuable as white-collar jobs these days, and oftentimes more so (especially if AI does end up strangling the job market). I wouldn't say a university degree is required for success. Blue-collar work is just as respectable, and in many ways a safer bet.

My worry has more to do with the perception of higher education, science and intellectual pursuits in general in the US. When people actually think universities are purveyors of "indoctrination" and "DEI ideology", your country is kinda cooked.

A real white collar job comes with a lot of benefits.

Originally posted by Arvaos:

Originally posted by Devious:

That's true, but from an economics perspective alone, trade jobs can be just as valuable as white-collar jobs these days, and oftentimes more so (especially if AI does end up strangling the job market). I wouldn't say a university degree is required for success. Blue-collar work is just as respectable, and in many ways a safer bet.

My worry has more to do with the perception of higher education, science and intellectual pursuits in general in the US. When people actually think universities are purveyors of "indoctrination" and "DEI ideology", your country is kinda cooked.

A real white collar job comes with a lot of benefits.

Yea, but Student Debt sucks, so no.

Originally posted by Arvaos:

Originally posted by Devious:

That's true, but from an economics perspective alone, trade jobs can be just as valuable as white-collar jobs these days, and oftentimes more so (especially if AI does end up strangling the job market). I wouldn't say a university degree is required for success. Blue-collar work is just as respectable, and in many ways a safer bet.

My worry has more to do with the perception of higher education, science and intellectual pursuits in general in the US. When people actually think universities are purveyors of "indoctrination" and "DEI ideology", your country is kinda cooked.

A real white collar job comes with a lot of benefits.

Sometimes yes, but it's by no means guaranteed except in a few select fields, mostly in health science.

In any case, I mostly agree with you. The US' broken university system will bite them in the ass in 10-20 years.

Originally posted by Emperor Chungus:

Originally posted by Arvaos:

A real white collar job comes with a lot of benefits.

Yea, but Student Debt sucks, so no.

Try being self employed and not having any paid leave.

Originally posted by Arvaos:

Originally posted by Emperor Chungus:

Yea, but Student Debt sucks, so no.

Try being self employed and not having any paid leave.

No.

Originally posted by Devious:

That's true, but from an economics perspective alone, trade jobs can be just as valuable as white-collar jobs these days, and oftentimes more so (especially if AI does end up strangling the job market). I wouldn't say a university degree is required for success. Blue-collar work is just as respectable, and in many ways a safer bet.

My worry has more to do with the perception of higher education, science and intellectual pursuits in general in the US. When people actually think universities are purveyors of "indoctrination" and "DEI ideology", your country is kinda cooked.

Agreed, with one addition is that those students has no hands on experience when applying for jobs. Most employers want hands on experience for the field that they applied for.

In every job interview and on application, they will ask you, do you have experience doing xyz? Especially if one want to work in a warehouse or operating a forklift. Which both of those require past experience.

Originally posted by whole9yard:

Originally posted by Devious:

That's true, but from an economics perspective alone, trade jobs can be just as valuable as white-collar jobs these days, and oftentimes more so (especially if AI does end up strangling the job market). I wouldn't say a university degree is required for success. Blue-collar work is just as respectable, and in many ways a safer bet.

My worry has more to do with the perception of higher education, science and intellectual pursuits in general in the US. When people actually think universities are purveyors of "indoctrination" and "DEI ideology", your country is kinda cooked.

Agreed, with one addition is that those students has no hands on experience when applying for jobs. Most employers want hands on experience for the field that they applied for.

In every job interview and on application, they will ask you, do you have experience doing xyz? Especially if one want to work in a warehouse or operating a forklift. Which both of those require past experience.

Sure but that's not a job that requires a high level of education.

A degree isn't a prerequisite.