Another thread that proves the obsession with Americans.

Originally posted by The Truth Speaks:

Another thread that proves the obsession with Americans.

No, it is about Security with the recent incident. Read before spamming thank you.

I guarantee you we all see the secret service or cia like in movies they can act for lack of better words “above the law”

In real life I’m sure they have to follow BS protocols and all this nonsense

so yeah I can see how it got messy if they saw a person on the roof and couldn’t react without approval from above and the approval got “delayed” for countless corporately protocol reasons

I work in a corporate job and I can’t tell you how many times things get haulted waiting on an approval and things so stupidly simple it’s absurd

Like in a warehouse type job if a forklift is rolling away (bear with me) a non forklift operator CANT hop in the forklift and pull the brake, they can’t do that if they do the’ll get caught and perhaps fired.

I've always respected and loved you. I'm interested in why you care more about US politics than UK politics.

Originally posted by The Truth Speaks:

I've always respected and loved you. I'm interested in why you care more about US politics than UK politics.

Its a security question.
When I want to talk about politics I do.

Originally posted by Andros:

I guarantee you we all see the secret service or cia like in movies they can act for lack of better words “above the law”

In real life I’m sure they have to follow BS protocols and all this nonsense

so yeah I can see how it got messy if they saw a person on the roof and couldn’t react without approval from above and the approval got “delayed” for countless corporately protocol reasons

I work in a corporate job and I can’t tell you how many times things get haulted waiting on an approval and things so stupidly simple it’s absurd

Like in a warehouse type job if a forklift is rolling away (bear with me) a non forklift operator CANT hop in the forklift and pull the brake, they can’t do that if they do the’ll get caught and perhaps fired.

I remember long time ago an attack happened inside a church (UK) the attacker had a sword and the people inside called 999.

Some people got injured but they managed to subdue the attacker by sitting on him.

The police were outside and were waiting for the go ahead to go in, the people inside came out eventually and said when are you coming in to take him away?

the police had to wait to be given the clear go .

Originally posted by Hobbit XIII:

Not political, this is about […] would have been.

In the modern world, media (including social) controls minds. As long as it does, you don't need real security, only the security theater. When media doesn't do the security or acts against someone, this happens.

Originally posted by Hobbit XIII:

......

"In brief and simplistic.
Two teams, one team goes ahead checks the area identifies issues and make diagrams / plans / take pictures. *(not always in security but ideally)."

Without a doubt the SS had a team evaluating the location a week+ before the event, at least.


"The buildings should not have had any access to it without supervision."

The local police had a counter-sniper team located inside the building the would-be assassin climbed on top of. (That's all I know atm, but if true then it was "controlled"... kinda.)


"Second team(those there doing the job at the time not advanced party), they had a tree obscuring the view (the sniper view ), this should have been identified / another person / couple to see from another angle."

I don't know what you mean by this. The gunman was in sight and targeted by the counter-sniper before he fired his weapon.


"AND second team should have had a clear communication and organisation on how to react to any issue arising."

Are you saying they didn't?


"The Guy was seen climbing the building and the public alerted the team and it was not prevented."

The SS were alerted about it less than a minute and a half or so before the gunman fired.


]Next Failing :
Either the secret Service or some official should have directed the crowd to duck and cover there heads with their forearms."

That is not the job of the SS and no stewardess was available to get to the podium to demonstrate to the crowd how to assume crash positions. The appropriate response is to immediately take down the threat. These are Americans, they know how to react to gunfire... I assume the hostesses arrived and served them refreshments as they instructed them how to leave the stands in an orderly manner during a fusillade of gunfire.



"Anything (not another person or animal obviously) that puts something between your head and bullet is a good thing."

Most people didn't figure out what was going on until they heard the sound of multiple shots. And, it's not "individuals" at this point, it's a packed crowd that is not ruled by individual independent thought... It's a bit late to find cover in an open field at that point that isn't someone else's body. The whole gunfire episode lasted less than maybe... fifteen seconds? I know - It seems a lot longer.


"Depending judgement of the situation then direct crowd to calmly leave the staging area (the people you see behind Donald Trump very exposed). That is a on the moment decision to take, to move or not to move."


There is no "decision" there - You move. Always. You move because the other guy was set up to shoot at you when you were not moving.

The crowd? To calmly direct the crowd? Where's that stewardess? You understand this is a live-fire situation lasting mere seconds where people who are responsible for shooting firearms at bad guys do not have the time in the few seconds of response to act as ushers at a theater, right? That is not their job.

"Close Protection Officers, - covering Donald Trump on the stage.
A female member of the team in the background showed leadership while the others were quick to react and cover before she took charge they were also just making themselves targets and not doing anything too useful and increasing danger.
She took charge and got them moving to the safer exit of the stairs.
In times past it would not be seen as unreasonable to knock the person you are protecting out to get them to safety and avoid further casualties. (you wont get many people nodding to this openly especially in today's world I imagine)."

... To... knock them out? To potentially cause life-threatening injury to one's charge when they're surrounded by personnel and moving towards safety? And... then you're gonna carry them? <Press Button to Knock Out>

Who's going to protect the charge from all the security trying to knock them over the head or pop them in the jaw with their service weapons or big sticks?

"Stand still while I slam this piece of steel against your head, Mr. President," said five Secret Service Agents in the middle of a firefight.

Srsly? Really?


"Failing of close Protection team
Too long to get Trump off the stage, with me he would not have been able to do his fist bump in the air (as iconic as it looked and I guess he will get votes for it as intended)."

Trump is around 6'3". His declared weight is around 230 lb or so. Which... is BS 'cause he's gotta weigh in at more than that. Anyway, he was reluctant to leave his shoes, which he evidently jumped out of or they slipped off. (I don't know if he was shown how to tie big-boy shoes or still wears slip-ons.) They are covering him and moving. That's their job. They exited the stage in a few seconds.

If you notice, the team's first job is to surround their charge. That's to take the next round... Next, move, move, move. They have one direction they can go to get offstage that is not in the direction of the shooter. Trump was whining about his shoes during the initial move and likely trying to keep them from rushing him off the stage. He was being uncooperative.


"...If there had been a secondary assassin in the crowd with a knife or firearm that Officer would become a casualty or the person they were protecting would have been.

If? I don't recall the officer you're mentioning, but there wasn't, so it didn't.

Well, if you're going to add an "if" then... that changes a lot of things. One assumes it also changes how events would have unfolded. One assumes it makes any/all facts fairly irrelevant. So, like... "what if" away.

Probably got complacent. Trump rallies a lot and nobody has been this overtly violent before.
They were competent enough to spot the gunner on the roof minutes before the assassination attempt.
But from their POV, idk if they could clearly see the gun until the last moments where the gunner rotated and clearly pointed the gun at Trump.
Last thing anyone wants is accidentally shooting a hapless civilian after all.

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Hobbit XIII:

......

"In brief and simplistic.
Two teams, one team goes ahead checks the area identifies issues and make diagrams / plans / take pictures. *(not always in security but ideally)."

Without a doubt the SS had a team evaluating the location a week+ before the event, at least.


"The buildings should not have had any access to it without supervision."

The local police had a counter-sniper team located inside the building the would-be assassin climbed on top of. (That's all I know atm, but if true then it was "controlled"... kinda.)


"Second team(those there doing the job at the time not advanced party), they had a tree obscuring the view (the sniper view ), this should have been identified / another person / couple to see from another angle."

I don't know what you mean by this. The gunman was in sight and targeted by the counter-sniper before he fired his weapon.


"AND second team should have had a clear communication and organisation on how to react to any issue arising."

Are you saying they didn't?


"The Guy was seen climbing the building and the public alerted the team and it was not prevented."

The SS were alerted about it less than a minute and a half or so before the gunman fired.


]Next Failing :
Either the secret Service or some official should have directed the crowd to duck and cover there heads with their forearms."

That is not the job of the SS and no stewardess was available to get to the podium to demonstrate to the crowd how to assume crash positions. The appropriate response is to immediately take down the threat. These are Americans, they know how to react to gunfire... I assume the hostesses arrived and served them refreshments as they instructed them how to leave the stands in an orderly manner during a fusillade of gunfire.



"Anything (not another person or animal obviously) that puts something between your head and bullet is a good thing."

Most people didn't figure out what was going on until they heard the sound of multiple shots. And, it's not "individuals" at this point, it's a packed crowd that is not ruled by individual independent thought... It's a bit late to find cover in an open field at that point that isn't someone else's body. The whole gunfire episode lasted less than maybe... fifteen seconds? I know - It seems a lot longer.


"Depending judgement of the situation then direct crowd to calmly leave the staging area (the people you see behind Donald Trump very exposed). That is a on the moment decision to take, to move or not to move."

....

The crowd? To calmly direct the crowd? Where's that stewardess? You understand this is a live-fire situation lasting mere seconds where people who are responsible for shooting firearms at bad guys do not have the time in the few seconds of response to act as ushers at a theater, right? That is not their job.

"Close Protection Officers, - covering Donald Trump on the stage.
A female member of the team in the background showed leadership while the others were quick to react and cover before she took charge they were also just making themselves targets and not doing anything too useful and increasing danger.
She took charge and got them moving to the safer exit of the stairs.
In times past it would not be seen as unreasonable to knock the person you are protecting out to get them to safety and avoid further casualties. (you wont get many people nodding to this openly especially in today's world I imagine)."

... To... knock them out? To potentially cause life-threatening injury to one's charge when they're surrounded by personnel and moving towards safety? And... then you're gonna carry them? <Press Button to Knock Out>

Who's going to protect the charge from all the security trying to knock them over the head or pop them in the jaw with their service weapons or big sticks?

"Stand still while I slam this piece of steel against your head, Mr. President," said five Secret Service Agents in the middle of a firefight.

Srsly? Really?


"Failing of close Protection team
Too long to get Trump off the stage, with me he would not have been able to do his fist bump in the air (as iconic as it looked and I guess he will get votes for it as intended)."

Trump is around 6'3". His declared weight is around 230 lb or so. Which... is BS 'cause he's gotta weigh in at more than that. Anyway, he was reluctant to leave his shoes, which he evidently jumped out of or they slipped off. (I don't know if he was shown how to tie big-boy shoes or still wears slip-ons.) They are covering him and moving. That's their job. They exited the stage in a few seconds.

If you notice, the team's first job is to surround their charge. That's to take the next round... Next, move, move, move. They have one direction they can go to get offstage that is not in the direction of the shooter. Trump was whining about his shoes during the initial move and likely trying to keep them from rushing him off the stage. He was being uncooperative.


"...If there had been a secondary assassin in the crowd with a knife or firearm that Officer would become a casualty or the person they were protecting would have been.

If? I don't recall the officer you're mentioning, but there wasn't, so it didn't.

Well, if you're going to add an "if" then... that changes a lot of things. One assumes it also changes how events would have unfolded. One assumes it makes any/all facts fairly irrelevant. So, like... "what if" away.

1. Yes they did and they made errors.

2. They did a bad job of protecting the outside of the building.
Even when the alert went up from the public.

3. something been changed then somewhere along the line. Because it was shown a team could not see the sniper because of the tree.

4. I am saying they did not because people were telling the security theres a guy climbing the building and he was able to get on the roof.

5. And they did nothing. Minute and a half to get up there and into position and open fire, = if so this guy was a wasted talent.

6. It does not matter their nationality they were exposed and were not helping themselves very much.

7. They knew to duck and then did nothing but stay a target a smaller target but still a target.

8. Yes, no necessary to knock straight out but to get them under control and yes it happens at least back in the days of yore it did. It is not a go to, but Trump / Team blame whoever it was taking too long. A Follow up attacker/s would have had a field day.
- its not pretty its life or death. Make fun of me all you want but this is another example of you just typing with little actual knowledge.

9. You answered it right there he was being uncooperative. See why security has to take charge. Uncooperative = liability = failure to do the job = casualties.

10. The officer you do not recall, exactly you were not watching properly.
You do not assume oh only one chappy then toodledoo chaps.

11. Its called not having the power of the crystal ball and getting on with the job.

If a shooter had roof top access less than 200 meters for the former president, something major was screwed up and a sign of major incompetence. An average soldier can shoot that distance with iron sights, and anyone with a scope shouldn't have a problem, assuming they were not in a hurry.

Depending on which news you listen two, the presences of the guy was know anywhere from 5 minutes to 30 minutes before the attempt. The security snipers on the other roofs are reported to actually took pictures right before the shot, I don't know about you, but seeing a guy with a rifle point a gun at a person and sight them in the scope should fit in the category of a clear and present danger, and the suspect should of been eliminated then.

There are also reports of a local cop confronting the suspect, who quickly retreated after having the gun pointed at him. I don't fault the cop, but his presence alone is probably why the shooter quickly took the shot.

The excuse the roof was to steep is a joke, and really cast doubt on the head of the secret service woman who made the claim.

There were calls to increase security before hand that were denied, so they did have a personal shortage.

false flag.....they had to be in on it for it to take that long to "find" the guy......people in the video were pointing him out before the service reacted meaning they were looking the other way.....

SS and general security was lacking for sure.
Just like it was lacking when JFK was taken out.

Originally posted by xDDD:

SS and general security was lacking for sure.
Just like it was lacking when JFK was taken out.

the parade down a line of tall buildings was the big mistake, i'd never be comfortable around towers if i was famous like that

Originally posted by Pulowski:

Originally posted by xDDD:

SS and general security was lacking for sure.
Just like it was lacking when JFK was taken out.

the parade down a line of tall buildings was the big mistake, i'd never be comfortable around towers if i was famous like that

A parade down a line of tall buildings in an open-top car with lower-than-normal security and a turn on the route that required the driver to slow down significantly...
What could possibly go wrong?