Alle diskussioner > Steam-fora > Steam Community > Trådoplysninger
Poor huwhyte Carl 12. juni kl. 9:45
No "naming and shaming" on Steam
The previous topic here was locked by a mod for necroposting:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/discussions/forum/7/3819656934430856536

But the issue is still relevant. The issue is "naming and shaming" isn't directly prohibited in the steam rules and guidelines the moderators typically refer to:

https://steamhost.cn/help_steampowered_com/en/faqs/view/6862-8119-C23E-EA7B

However, Steam moderators overreach their authority and reprimand steam users for "naming and shaming" while acting in their official Steam employees capacity. Example:

https://i.imgur.com/lZsz9Uy.png

There's an argument that naming and shaming falls under the harassment umbrella. Likely not.

I'm on my way out of this garbage platform and haven't been buying anything here for a while. Note, that this opinion about this platform isn't harassment yet, although likely is naming and shaming, as I name Steam as Steam and shame them as being a garbage platform. For this to qualify as harassment under the state of Washington, US laws, it likely has to:

1. Be a series of acts over a period of time, not once.
2. Have to be a direct communication with Gabe Newell.
3. Have to have no other purpose than to cause emotional distress.
4. Emotional distress is evidence and demonstrable in court.

It's quite different than, say, posting in your own community about a suspected cheater or supected shill or suspected mod thief or suspected cybercriminal.

In the end, Steam moderators clearly overreach their authority and punish Steam users for violation of their secret internal guidelines, not based on what rules are officially published. Those who choose to post any content here, beware.
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Leonardo Da Pinchi 12. juni kl. 9:52 
Naming and shaming has been a offense that can lead to bans for...probably well over a decade now.

If you're leaving over that, then, well..you have fun with that.
#1
Brian9824 12. juni kl. 9:54 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Poor huwhyte Carl:
But the issue is still relevant. The issue is "naming and shaming" isn't directly prohibited in the steam rules and guidelines the moderators typically refer to:

It is

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810

Examples of disrespectful content include:
Insults or harassment
Public accusations towards others

Falls under both of those. If your naming someone and accusing them of something to shame them that's a public accusation and/or insult.

If you can't follow the rules then leaving is probably the right move on your part.
Sidst redigeret af Brian9824; 12. juni kl. 9:54
#2
Poor huwhyte Carl 12. juni kl. 9:58 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Brian9824:
If your naming someone and accusing them of something to shame them that's a public accusation and/or insult.

Very vague, as insults are subjective. Say, there's a homosexual, which is an objective fact. If I call them as homosexual, this can be perceived as an insult. Yes, there's a motion right now to make this word officially derogatory.

Same as "cheater". Same as "thief". It's hard to argue that cheaters or thieves don't exist. Yet, naming them as such can be perceived as an insult and there you go.

As for harassment, I don't see how what you say refutes what I already addressed in the OP.
#3
Thermal Lance 12. juni kl. 10:03 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Poor huwhyte Carl:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Brian9824:
If your naming someone and accusing them of something to shame them that's a public accusation and/or insult.

Very vague, as insults are subjective. Say, there's a homosexual, which is an objective fact. If I call them as homosexual, this can be perceived as an insult. Yes, there's a motion right now to make this word officially derogatory.

Same as "cheater". Same as "thief". It's hard to argue that cheaters or thieves don't exist. Yet, naming them as such can be perceived as an insult and there you go.

As for harassment, I don't see how what you say refutes what I already addressed in the OP.
Naming and shaming will never be allowed.

End of story
#4
Mr. Smiles 12. juni kl. 10:15 
"I want to harass people in a public space"

The thread.
#5
Brian9824 12. juni kl. 10:15 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Poor huwhyte Carl:
Very vague, as insults are subjective. Say, there's a homosexual, which is an objective fact. If I call them as homosexual, this can be perceived as an insult.

So don't do it then, no need to call someone that on the forums, or to go to any personal level. This is a gaming forum, you don't need to be discussing people's sexual preference.

Even if someone is a liar or cheater accusing them of it on a forum here is not appropriate
#6
Satoru 12. juni kl. 10:21 
Rules Lawyer complains that something that obviously violates the rules, isnt explicitly stated and thus is not a rule violation.
#7
sandokanski 12. juni kl. 10:21 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Poor huwhyte Carl:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Brian9824:
If your naming someone and accusing them of something to shame them that's a public accusation and/or insult.

Very vague, as insults are subjective. Say, there's a homosexual, which is an objective fact. If I call them as homosexual, this can be perceived as an insult. Yes, there's a motion right now to make this word officially derogatory.

Same as "cheater". Same as "thief". It's hard to argue that cheaters or thieves don't exist. Yet, naming them as such can be perceived as an insult and there you go.

As for harassment, I don't see how what you say refutes what I already addressed in the OP.
Yeah. Public accusations are prohibited. It doesn't matter if they are done to insult, if they are true or false.


Oprindeligt skrevet af Satoru:
Rules Lawyer complains that something that obviously violates the rules, isnt explicitly stated and thus is not a rule violation.
It is even worse. The rule is there.
"Examples of disrespectful content include:
...
Public accusations towards others"
Sidst redigeret af sandokanski; 12. juni kl. 10:25
#8
Poor huwhyte Carl 12. juni kl. 10:24 
>So don't do it then

Why?

But I'll bite. In general, any unjust society will inevitably underperform as compared to less unjust societies. Steam communities is such a society. If they want to go down and lose to competitors, they are on the right way.

What makes a society unjust? Hidden secret laws that are applied selectively. Here we have a clearly documented hidden law that is applied selectively, which makes it unjust.

Moreover, those Steam users, like myself, who insist on Steam becoming less unjust by reporting these injustices, do the right thing.

Even moreover, the bootlickers who get behind anything Steam moderators do, make things worse, including for themselves.

>Even if someone is a liar or cheater accusing them of it on a forum here is not appropriate

Why?
#9
Leonardo Da Pinchi 12. juni kl. 10:28 
Simple, it's to prevent witch hunts and again, harassment. Example: If I go into a game hub, post your profile URL claiming you cheat in said game.

People believe me, spamming your comments section with insults, threats, etc. Or even follow you forum to forum doing so.

Now, with the no naming and shaming rule in place. Instead of the accusation being left up, it's deleted and I'm held accountable.

Steam is not the place to abuse others, plain and simple.
Sidst redigeret af Leonardo Da Pinchi; 12. juni kl. 10:29
#10
Brian9824 12. juni kl. 10:28 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Poor huwhyte Carl:
Hidden secret laws that are applied selectively. Here we have a clearly documented hidden law that is applied selectively, which makes it unjust.
Except you being ignorant or refusing to accept the law doesnt make it hidden. Its clearly listed.

Just like "assault" doesn't specifically list slapping someone with a fish, but it would be considered assault. Rules are broad so people can't go, oh the law says its only assault if i slap someone with a footlong fish and this was 11.9 inches long.....


Oprindeligt skrevet af Poor huwhyte Carl:
>Even if someone is a liar or cheater accusing them of it on a forum here is not appropriate
Why?

Because the forum is not the place for people to go make accusations against other users. Feel free to make your own site if you want that. Otherwise the forums would be filled with spam everytime someone loses in a game posting that others cheated
Sidst redigeret af Brian9824; 12. juni kl. 10:29
#11
Poor huwhyte Carl 12. juni kl. 10:38 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Brian9824:
Except you being ignorant or refusing to accept the law doesnt make it hidden. Its clearly listed.

I don't think you are arguing in good faith. But, to reiterate, there are no mentions of words "naming" or "shaming" in the rules & guidelines document.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Brian9824:
Because the forum is not the place for people to go make accusations against other users. Feel free to make your own site if you want that.

Why?

But I'll bite again.

Firstly, it wasn't strictly on Steam forums. It was in a Steam group, one has to join in order to read its announcements on their activity feed. Although the direct links to announcements are publicly available. Typically only the group members read them, definitely unlikely that some, say, cheater or bootlicker who is being shamed, reads them.

Secondly, it's still not clear why, say, a Steam group isn't a place to make accusations against other users.

For example, I maintain some game servers. I ban cheaters there regularly. There's a ban log in the steam group, to inform others so they are beware of cheaters, as well as for accountability reasons, as well as to maintain the history of bans, as there are periodic amnesties and it's useful to know if a cheater comes back after being unbanned.

Also, it directly benefits the community so the members recognize the cheaters when they see them and may decide to act by kicking them from their games even before the bans take effect. It's a PSA that serves the community.
#12
Bishop 12. juni kl. 10:40 
The "naming and shaming " rule has always been ridiculous and like all rules on steam haphazardly enforced. I've seen certain users dig through and all but dox people and they never get hit with a ban for naming and shaming. Truth is moderation will ban you for whatever arbitrary reason they want and certain users here who have protection will spam reports en masse to get you banned if you say something that offends them. Because of all this corruption the forums are a lost cause.

Anyway I applaud your decision in moving on OP and not supporting steam any longer. It's a decision I'm seeing expressed more and more recently. Valve is truly a soulless company these days that seems to revel in abusing it's customers. Here's to hoping we get to see the entire company go bankrupt in the coming years.
#13
Poor huwhyte Carl 12. juni kl. 10:42 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Leonardo Da Pinchi:
Simple, it's to prevent witch hunts and again, harassment. Example: If I go into a game hub, post your profile URL claiming you cheat in said game.

People believe me, spamming your comments section with insults, threats, etc. Or even follow you forum to forum doing so.

I am personally fine with it.

But to take measures against it, assuming a lot of people aren't fine with it, it needs first to be proven that such witch hunts cause more harm than good.

From my gaming experience and I have 13 years on Steam, most gamers in most cases are right at correctly identifying cheaters and do a good job spreading awareness about particular unrepentant cheaters.

I prefer if these gamers were rewarded, instead of reprimanded.

To get an idea, not a single time in those 13 years, nobody accused me of cheating and engaged in a harassment campaign. At this point, I trust a regular gamer do the right thing more than I do trust Steam moderators. I think they do a very poor job moderating content and the service would be better off if they did nothing.
#14
Thermal Lance 12. juni kl. 10:44 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Bishop:
The "naming and shaming " rule has always been ridiculous and like all rules on steam haphazardly enforced. I've seen certain users dig through and all but dox people and they never get hit with a ban for naming and shaming. Truth is moderation will ban you for whatever arbitrary reason they want and certain users here who have protection will spam reports en masse to get you banned if you say something that offends them. Because of all this corruption the forums are a lost cause.

Anyway I applaud your decision in moving on OP and not supporting steam any longer. It's a decision I'm seeing expressed more and more recently. Valve is truly a soulless company these days that seems to revel in abusing it's customers. Here's to hoping we get to see the entire company go bankrupt in the coming years.
Oh boy. The shadow cabal strikes again
#15
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