Hi trez00d,

Thanks for the detailed report. You seem to have two issues (a) crashing (b) Move It incompatibility

• Move It! was updated 9 Dec @ 10:25pm with message "Hotfix for loading issue"
  
• The Move It! description shows that as of 2.9.5 it adds support for "Extended Managers Library"
  
• The "Extended Managers Library" gets multiple updates per day at this point, and itself depends on Harmony

Based on these clues, I have to conclude that Move It now has an indirect dependency on Harmony via the Extended Managers Library, and the unexplained "loading issue" means that the author is struggling to get a handle on loading under various configurations. It could be that he fixed loading when "Extended Managers Library" is present, but broke it when it's not present.

The Extended Managers Library, being so frequently updated, and based on its own description that "This mod, under its current state, is not ready for mainstream usage", tells me that it is in pre-alpha stage, which means bugs abound.

Looking at the Move It github, I see multiple commits which either add, improve, make compatible, modify support for "Tree Snapping", "Prop Snapping" and "Tree Anarchy", which indicates to me a trial-and-error process to make a handful of mods detect each other and play along. The code itself is hacky, detecting mods by the subscription status, then attempting to load assemblies. This approach is very prone to break depending on load order, versions and updates of the mods it tries to juggle.

I would suggest the problem is in the "Hotfix for loading issue" in Move It. Try using an older version of Move It, approaching its author with a bug report, and/or removing this mod until the dust settles.



You have mod 2414618415 (Adaptive Roads), which fails to load, and reports:

Other than the multiple missing dependencies, this mod suffers from a well known and documented issue, as the report indicates: https://github.com/drok/Harmony-CitiesSkylines/issues/9; try pointing its author to this documentation. This loading bug is positively in the adaptive roads mod.

In your Harmony Report there are multiple mods with problems, and some that are deeply troubled, listed below. Try unsubcribing these to see if they solve the crashing, then re-subscribe them one at a time, to find if any one specifically triggers the crash.


However, once you start re-enabling these badly behaved mods, you're basically gambling with stability. They have known, serious bugs, and if they work, when they work, it's by luck of circumstances, rather than by design. Their bugs can only be solved by their respective authors.

Normally, mods that don't try to be too magical should not be able to crash the game to desktop, except by triggering an out-of-memory condition, which is not handled by the game at all. Can you rule out one of these mods, or even the game, hogging more memory than expected?

Magical mods are those that drop DLL's in the game's directory to hijack/hook the executable in some way. They rely on undocumented, unsupported tricks to accomplish their magic, so their faults are not caught and handled by the application. Hence, when they encounter some error, unhandled conditions mean crash. Examples: FPS booster, patch loader, etc.

I would also include the following mods in the "magical" category, as they appear to change elements of the graphics engine at a low level. Try unsubbing them and cautiously re-adding them one at a time. This is not to put blame on them, but they are where I would begin investigating:


Finally, I highly doubt that either harmony mod is directly the cause of your crashes. Rather, I suspect the crash is due to some secondary effect, like load order, or running out of memory. In fact, load order can trigger bugs in either the game or some mods that would cause them to use excessive memory.

Through a divide and conquer approach, try removing mods, and re-introduce them carefully. As your Harmony Report shows, there are currently multiple causes for instability in your game. Instability doesn't necessarily mean crash, but an increased chance of undefined behaviour.

I hope this helps, and after you try ruling out some of the highlighted culprits, I'd appreciate it if you'd update this thread with your findings; it may help someone in the future.

I'll definitely read through what you posted and keep ya updated! I figured there'd be some wild ass issues (considering I've just done rolling mod updates and stuff), I'm surprised it managed to all load

I should also add, I've got 24GB RAM, and over 64GB swap/pagefile on Windows and Linux, but I can definitely increase those. It does get pretty close to the limit, but typically there's plenty left.

Originally posted by trez00d:

I should also add, I've got 24GB RAM, and over 64GB swap/pagefile on Windows and Linux, but I can definitely increase those. It does get pretty close to the limit, but typically there's plenty left.

It's hard to say what would be required for _your_ gamesave. I've seen reports of gamesaves using over 120GB of address space (RAM + swap), which would absolutely crash on your system as currently configured.

Keep in mind that with unstable mods, it may be unexpected memory use, eg, a bug triggered by the instability which causes 50GB to be attempted to be allocated. Even if the mod does not require 50GB, it's enough to miscalculate how much memory it needs. The attempt alone tells the game there is not enough memory, and it doesn't have a gracious handler for this error. Instead, it simply crashes. You'd be able to tell from the log file if your crash is due to memory.

Also, if you are somehow near the limit of the memory requirement, it's entirely possible that one configuration to use slightly less than you have, and not crash, while other, with only a minor difference (eg, this brand of harmony instead of the other brand) to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I've also seen crashes due to graphics drivers before. Infamously, citrix workspaces does some magic with capturing the screen for remote work, which would interfere with CSL, causing CSL to crash when citrix is installed. There is likely a whole class of software that can cause this kind of crash.

Post your full output log file after a crash, it may shed some light on what kind of crash you are having.

I'll update as soon as possible, Steam isn't wanting to verify files or download workshop content on my Linux drive, so I'm currently on Windows. I unsubbed Adaptive Roads and now Harmony (redesigned) works on this drive, so that's a plus.