Not sure if bug, but eating a sanvich as heavy wont remove infection.

Originally posted by sqwid:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

No actually, i went and checked the thread listing all the weapons and this "decreased agility" (whatever the fuck that would mean) is not listed there.

I meant with my suggestion to nerf it.

oh, mah bad.

Originally posted by sqwid:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

Im gunna talk about this again, my problem with life leach, ON A SHOTGUN, is that its way to easy to dip and duck around a heavy or other larger slow class with easy shots constantly filling your hp.
Bonus health i feel would be more fun to fight and more balanced.

Did you see the "decreased agility" under nerfs? That effectively makes it easier for Heavies (not to mention other classes) to take you down. It rewards you then for dealing lots of damage while also making you not impossible to deal with.

No actually, i went and checked the thread listing all the weapons and this "decreased agility" (whatever the fuck that would mean) is not listed there.

Originally posted by sqwid:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

Balance for the bulldog.
Remove the life steal, decrease it to -15 hp.
Make it so every kill gives you +25 hp.
I dont know what the max would be.
Bam.
Also why was medispenser removed?

Bulldog sounds like it just needs an overheal penalty at some point, at most 185 health. Maybe raise the max health you have a start from the beginning and decrease the agility the Scout has to compensate.

Also I think Medispencer had a hardly impressive passive ability with an overpowered Ubercharge that could be abused. (Infinite clip and ammo = Panic Attack and Beggar's Bazooka are king).

Im gunna talk about this again, my problem with life leach, ON A SHOTGUN, is that its way to easy to dip and duck around a heavy or other larger slow class with easy shots constantly filling your hp.
Bonus health i feel would be more fun to fight and more balanced.

Originally posted by sqwid:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

Did you look at the removal poll? I dont even see it on the poll and everyone knows people are voting based on op and not the actual reasons they posted...

Or...

Maybe they are...

Also that's not really an argument to what I stated. It's too powerful with +50 max health and needs to be toned down to +25 with another, bigger downside.

Listen, we clearly have varying opinions and im just going to agree to disagree.
(not being able to move buildings is still a big deal, you cant effectivly get a lvl 3 up without a jag or a lvl 3 dispenser already with you unless you fall back very early.)

Originally posted by sqwid:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

if each rocket does 80, a normal engineer would die too 2 rockets. Fair nough, this would allow him (WITHOUT GUNSLINGER) to survive 2 rockets with 15 hp left, pretty easy to shoot 1 extra rocket. Demo man direct pipes are unaffected, he still dies from 2 shots either way. The difference really more comes in with weapons like the minigun and shotgun.

Things 175 health Engi can survive:

Two shots from the Scattergun or Shotgun from close-ish range

Three Rockets from medium distance

A lot of flames from the flamethrower

A flare and then critical flare combo

Demoman sticky spamming in many more cases

A noticeable amount of Minigun bullets

Two Crusader's Crossbow shots from the longest range possible

A non charged and somewhat charged headshot from the Stock (and most other rifles)

An Ambassador headshot followed by close body shot

3 Revolver shots from close range

Two melee stock hits

+50 health is a big fucking deal

Needs to be lowered to +25 health.

Also a building rate penalty doesn't make the Engineer totally fucking useless. Eureka Effect is good on Engineer even with -50% wrench boost rate.

Just make it +25 max health and slower build speed and it'll become pretty fair and also useful.

Goddamn please don't make this OP abomination exist any longer in its current state.

Did you look at the removal poll? I dont even see it on the poll and everyone knows people are voting based on op and not the actual reasons they posted...

Originally posted by MEDIC!:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

a close range rocket is like what? 80 damage?

I've seen this debate.

1. I prefer the Metal Shield anyway because it's just as good without the actually kinda bad nerf of not being able to move your buildings. I'm finding it increasingly more useful to be able to move your level three without destroying it. (inserts evil laughing as I continually spawncamp RED on a payload map with my Wrangler and Jag that ALWAYS crits)

2. I don't think +50 HP is that bad on it's own. The absolute worst case scenario is a Gunslinger spamming minis with his Soldier HP. How about a slower upgrade and construction rate so you can't spam Mini-sentries without much impunity, or a 20 metal increase in buildings to stop the ability to spam a mini after placement, all while keeping the inability to move your buildings.

OR

Move speed penalty while above 50% health that slows Engie down to Soldier speed.

I dont like a build penalty because no matter what, engineer is still about buildings, even battle engineer is, i think the 20 metal increase would be good, plus a battle engineer still kind of needs mini's as stated above it only takes 1 extra rocket to kill a BoB engie (Brawn Over Brain) and for demoman its unaffected, still dies 2 shots, even with gunslinger.
Move speed penalty would be absolutly god fucking awfull.

Originally posted by CHAWLZ!:

50 HP is not a lot on its own, but in the context of adding to a class with 125 health that is almost a 50% increase in durability.

If you want to talk about this specific situation in a vaccuum, a combat-range rocket will do 80 damage, yes. Two of those rockets will deal 160 damage. With +50 health, the Engineer will survive both of those rockets and still have a fighting chance. Will he win? Maybe not. It's still a very large difference. That said, this is't representative of every combat situation either way, and there's a hundred more where +50 can win or lose fights.

50 health is still a lot.

if each rocket does 80, a normal engineer would die too 2 rockets. Fair nough, this would allow him (WITHOUT GUNSLINGER) to survive 2 rockets with 15 hp left, pretty easy to shoot 1 extra rocket. Demo man direct pipes are unaffected, he still dies from 2 shots either way. The difference really more comes in with weapons like the minigun and shotgun.

Originally posted by CHAWLZ!:

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

+50 health isnt that much

Fifty health is a lot. A LOT.

a close range rocket is like what? 80 damage?

Side note: the frontal lobe is high on the remove vote list, if this will happen i suggest possibly changing it back to its secondary fast fix version.